Some Thoughts on Scenarios

[carverrt]

A couple of years ago I wrote in this forum an opinion that was understood by some and derided by some. To be fair I was critical. My point was that we are given a fantastic tool that is centered on strategic combat in the mid-20th century, why try to create mods that move away from that time period.

So I am back with the publication of W&W to encourage those who are thinking of mods to create scenarios that really do this game justice. There is so much to choose from. How about a Western Europe scenario; June 6 to the end of the war? How about the countless battles of Russia? How about an Italian campaign? I read a moder was working on a Create scenario. I was so surprised and delighted to see the Spanish Civil war game, how about a Russian-Finish game. Anzio, El Aleman, France ’40 (saw a great one done before), Balkans ’41. Even hypotheticals like Sea Lowe and D-Day ’43 would be great to see.

This game engine is designed for WWII - the equipment, the technologies and the logistics all replicate a specific time period. Let’s do the game justice.

[ChrisND]

Well get to work then.

[Moonslayer]

Couldn't have said it better myself, ND

RobertC I couldn't disagree more with you. I, myself, am working on the following mods:

Cyprus 1974

Operation Mercury

Operation Hercules

Pearl Harbour

The Pacific Theatre

Star Fleet Battles

Syria & Lebanon 1941

War of the Worlds

Mostly WWII but I find it interesting as a modder to think outside the box and try wacky ideas too.

I am not particularly gifted as a modder, my artwork skills are dubious at best and my ideas are hardly ground breaking. Anyone can create mods.

If you don't like the ones being made then make one yourself. Each of us have the skills needed all we need in addition is an idea and the inclination.

I look forward to playing some of the scenarios you mentioned... If you need any help making them then I would be happy to do what I can to assist.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

There was a Finnish guy who, during the SC1 days, constantly crowed about how he would create a Winter War scenario once SC2 came out. Well it came out and he mysteriously vanished.

[ChrisND]

I wish I could be making more scenarios and converting the old ones to WaW, but school and real life are just too time-consuming at the moment. So I am limited to artwork here and there. Hopefully I can back to modding someday.

[Preusse]

At some point, someone was working on a Mediterranean campaign 1940-1945. I forgot who that was?

[ChrisND]

That was me. It ended up becoming a full time job and I could'nt finish it without quitting work and school. Someday it might yet get finished if I turn doen the scale.

[J P Wagner]

Sorry RobertC but your post makes absolutely no sense. I am trying my best, with the limited time I have to work on it, on a Russian Civil War scenario. Now when I'm finished with it, and finally post it on CMODS, it is your choice not to try it. For me, WWII has been played to death with many games, so it is more of a challenge to try something different. As citing only one example, I look at the new Spanish Civil War scenario as a perfect illustration of what innovative ways the editor can be used, and can only hope that my RCW mod is 1/10th as good as that one. Thankfully not everyone has such a myopic view of how the editor can be used as you do....

[Kuniworth]

I actually think that Bill and Matthew's Poland 1939 scenario is totally overlooked. Playing that one with large map and divisional sized units is where I think sc2 waw got huge potential.

[pzgndr]

Sorry RobertC but your post makes absolutely no sense.

Well JP in a way it does. He mentions strategic warfare in mid-20th century, and that's what the default game was designed for. The typical WWII unit types are modeled and tech areas for research are still hardwired to particular unit types. One can extrapolate the game to operational level campaigns and to other time periods around WWII. But if one tries going too far into tactical levels or other time periods then they're on their own and need to compromise with the game mechanics. It's doable of course, but the strength of the game remains mid-20th century strategic warfare and RobertC is just asking for more mods along these lines. That's fair.

From a modder's perspective, I would ask players that do try a mod to offer some feedback. How was play balance against the AI or against another human player? What should be added, deleted or adjusted? Etc. These mods do take time and they aren't perfect, so a little help and some fresh ideas are usually appreciated so updates can be made and posted.

[Desert Dave]

WWII has been played to death with many games, so it is more of a challenge to try something different.

Perhaps.

Thing of it is, however,

It - the WW2 Grand Strategy

Game hasn't - as of yet,

Been accomplished.

IMHO.

Hubert has come... closest. :cool:

Quite likely, IMO, HE will be

The one to get it done.

Yah yah I am a HUGE "fan"

Of his mechanics and methodolgy,

Of his willingness to break out

Of old paradigms and try out

What is risky, what is new.

Proof?

His ever-expanded... Editor.

These other faux makers

Don't allow much, if enny a'that.

Hubert does.

BECAUSE -> he WANTS to know

All the myriad many ways his game

Can be "modified."

How else to see what is the best, then,

Pick and choose?

I cannot BELIEVE it.

It is absolutely and utterly amazing!

To me,

That ALL these so-called "pretenders,"

These famed game-makers

(... well, we got more parvenus

than we got - bearers of good GS news)

Of the last 40-50 years

Have... NOT... done it, nor

Have ANY of them come close.

How can that be?

ALL that knowledge, and experience,

And freshly available

Histories and statistics,

And they STILL can't get it right. :confused:

OK, IMO,

The very best scale is the one

That the three very best board-games

Have used.

50-60 miles per tile/hex.

Everybody has their own opinion,

And well they should,

But, for myself, I am convinced

That TIME is of the essence

When doing THE paramount WW2 GS game.

Larger scale and you MIGHT get the thing

Done in, oh, 3-4 months.

No fun.

For me.

(... MWiF should be interesting, but,

getting through a whole ETO game is gonna

be a real and lasting drag, man :eek: )

For one reason,

Stacking is a plain pain in the Keister.

Proved UN-necessary anyway,

Once SSI's Panzer General was released.

Much better to have units that can be

Reduced in size

(... 10 is an X-cellent # to commence with)

And reinforced, in lieu of having stacks

Or O/W instituted as "flipped" counters.

SC2 (... Hubert) solved the "retreat issue"

Once and for all, IE,

With the cheaper & faster rebuild

Of an "eliminated" unit.

Yep, it ain't REALLY eliminated at all.

It's... as with ANYTHING

"Artistically aesthetic"... in

Each player's... imagination.

The unit has actually retreated

And re-formed around the surviving Cadre.

Well,

Sufficient to say... we ARE gonna get

That premier WW2 GS game,

And we ARE gonna get it from -> Hubert.

The rest of them there pretenders & parvenus

Are, VERY apparently,

Simply unable to do it.

Else, we would have seen it by now,

AFter these 40 ++ years,

One would think?

[Desert Dave]

One other thing -> no!

WW2 GS is NOT merely a "niche" game.

LOL, whoever started that simple

Minded jest-fest and jive?

UN-like ANY other genre,

It IS a game that has it all.

Good VS Evil.

As appealing as it gets, since

EVERYONE imagines themselves

As THE one Alexander/Caesar-like Cat

Who CAN in fact,

Conquer the whole known world.

And do it satisfyingly legit, IE, defeating

The merciless Monster in the process.

It'll be:

Hard-wired, mostly-male "territoriality"

Fully realized, in the X-treme.

And so,

The most daring and adventurous

Creator Cat who does indeed get it done,

Shall, surely,

As side benefit, IMO,

Become a... rich man.

(... could even do a "Brando"

And buy himself a little island

In one of those 7 Seas

And long, long - sway the trade-wind day

Away, yea,

Beneath some song-singing palm trees. :cool: )

I suspect it - this way:

There are countless old board-game players

(... now at the age where they have

time and money to burn! )

Who are, as said... still waiting.

There are countless new players

Weaned since kindergarten on "computers,"

Who are also anxious to see

THE premier WW2 GS game.

(... they heard tell of the romance, they've

recognized a "journey of the Hero"

which is a myth that is real)

I personally have absolutey NO doubt about this.

But... they are all, young and old alike,

Quite particular,

And will surely KNOW

THE "gotta have" game

Then it is released.

As with any other business venture,

Same as I discovered years ago

Working in the "family business"

For a decade,

Word of Mouth

Sells more product, oh, I'd guess,

On the order of 10 X's over,

Than all the rest of the aggrandizements,

Bally-hoo and inducements - combined.

WHEN that paramount WW2 GS game is made,

And, again,

Hubert is the ONLY guy I forsee

Being ABLE to do it

(... I have looked at ALL the other guys' stuff,

extant, or planned, and NONE of them

truly clue-less Dudes - is even CLOSE)

Well, the word will fast!

Travel the intra-connected Globe, and

The maker WILL be crafting sand-castles

In the soft frond-shaded sands

That... he will... own. :cool:

[J P Wagner]

Again, I see no need for RobertC's post for the simple reason that "it makes no sense" to offer an opinion which limits creativity. Obviously WWII scenarios can be made and some great ones have already been produces to sate the WWII grogs, but if an individual wants to try something different such as the Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, War of the Worlds, ect. then I just cannot understand someone who would waste the thought and time to post,and basically say, don't bother making these type of mods, just make mods that I, RobertC, want to play and do not "try" creating anything else. Pure rubbish!

[Desert Dave]

... then I just cannot understand someone who would waste the thought and time to post,and basically say, don't bother making these type of mods, just make mods that I, RobertC, want to play and do not "try" creating anything else. Pure rubbish!

I can understand it.

It's a "free-wheeling" forum,

And anybody can say

Pretty much what they please,

Within established parameters, natch.

Nothing is... utterly "rubbish," IMHO,

ALL and every thing has something in it

That we can learn from,

And can therefore expand our

Mostly self-limiting Gestalt.

In this case, I agree with RobertC's

Apparent suggestion

That this game/engine,

At this particular time,

Is, in fact, BEST suited

To replicate WW2 era warfare, and

I think?

That's about all he was saying?

And NOT that something OTHER

Couldn't be done?

And done quite well? :confused:

Once another genre game

Or scenario IS presented, well,

We'll see if it's any good,

And best! Fun to play, eh?

[carverrt]

Normal Dude:

I do have a scenario I could publish. It needs lots of scripts written, but the units are in place and ready to go – I took the newest Global War release and moved up the start date to 1 June 1941 and called it the Axis High Watermark scenario – after my favorite SPI game of all time!

JP Wagner:

My posts are not an attack – I sensed you felt I was attacking the non-WW2 modders. I want to encourage WW2 modders and let non-WW2 modders know that their tool (SC2 Editor) is designed for another time.

I also sensed you thought I wanted scenarios designed only for my pleasure. Not true. However, I really do enjoy playing scenarios designed by others.

But, thanks for keeping me humble.

[Moonslayer]

As one of the modders that has produced non WWII games then I must say that this tool is very flexible and can easily be adapted for a multitude of uses; not merely restricted to the mid 20th century. I appreciate the sentiment but as an intelligent and rational human being I feel capable of making my own mind up over what makes a good mod.

Naturally we are all entitled to our own opinions.

[J P Wagner]

Originally posted by Moonslayer:

As one of the modders that has produced non WWII games then I must say that this tool is very flexible and can easily be adapted for a multitude of uses; not merely restricted to the mid 20th century. I appreciate the sentiment but as an intelligent and rational human being I feel capable of making my own mind up over what makes a good mod.

Naturally we are all entitled to our own opinions.

Thank you for explaining it better than I did....And now to continue playing Railroad Tycoon and connect all of my resources on my non-WWII RCW map......