John Kettler Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 History Channel is running something called "Storm on the Horizon" depicting some very pertinent to CM: recon unit ops prior to Desert Storm. As I type this, a 5-man Marine recon team, operating at night, with no radio contact, is, on foot, attacking an Iraqi tank formation of unknown size and has driven SF it back a klick. I knew Marines were tough, but sheesh!!! This, BTW, is NOT Khafji. That's next. Regards, John Kettler [ June 02, 2006, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: John Kettler ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 Originally posted by John Kettler: History Channel is running something called "Before the Storm" depicting some very pertinent to CM:SF recon unit ops prior to Desert Storm. As I type this, a 5-man Marine recon team, with no radio contact, is, on foot, attacking an Iraqi tank formation of unknown size and has driven it back a klick. I knew Marines were tough, but sheesh!!! Regards, John Kettler I saw a bit of that John. My brother was flying one of the Marine Cobras that went in for support as the battle started. They ran out of fuel because of a bad waypoint and had to land ... AT KAFJI AIRPORT! Luckily my brother had worked at a local air service place and recognized a fuel station pump. So there they were, refuelling Cobras from what appeared to be a garden hose ... in the deserted Kafji airport ... as the town was being taken over by Iraqis. I'm going to watch the whole thing a bit later and see if they mention him or the flight. Joe 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 3, 2006 Author Share Posted June 3, 2006 Joe Shaw, Now, that's a story to tell the grandchildren! I'm so glad my brother's retired from the Army and can't be sent back there! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 3, 2006 Author Share Posted June 3, 2006 As of midnight PDT 3 June, it's back on again! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeatEtr Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 I did catch most of this program. Pretty kool stuff, basically spying on the enemy and calling in arty, at least the part on the rooftop in Kafji. That part about attacking the tanks on foot with only small arms fire. Grant it, that certainly takes balls of steel, but doesn't seem like a smart idea. Good ole fow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 3, 2006 Author Share Posted June 3, 2006 MeatEtr, There's a great example of this in one of those Wargames Research Group skirmish rule sets. I forget whether it was the 1956 War or the 1967 War, but in MOUT an Egyptian tank unit encountered an Israeli MG jeep recon unit, and both fled. Why? In the case of the jeeps, it's pretty obvious, but in the case of the tanks, it was all about psychology. The tankers ran into unexpected resistance and figured that if the opening argument consisted of HMG fire, then something much nastier was lurking nearby, such as 106mm recoilless rifle equipped jeeps the Israelis were known to have. With no infantry to protect them and a force of unknown size likely lying in wait, the tankers deemed discretion to be the better part of valor and split. Something similar seems to have happened that night at OP4 when the Iraqi tank advance unexpectedly got a very hot reception. I'll be the first to admit, thought, that the counterattack on foot was leagues beyond the jeep on tank encounter above. Regards, John Kettler [ June 03, 2006, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: John Kettler ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial Grunt Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 The US Marines are the Nation's elite shock troops and the Marines have proven this over and over agian, especially from WW I and on. The US Army's Rangers and 82nd Airborne are also elite assault forces, but they are still different from the US Marines in not just in how they are equipped and operational capabilites, but also in doctrine and tactics and mentality. The Khafji battle exemplified USMC valor, but you still have to keep in mind the enemy, and good old lady luck. If the Iraqis were more competent and professional, then Khafji would have gone down differently, and each recon team would probably have been snuffed out, one by one, no matter how valorious of a fight the Marines put up. I do not think that the Marine TF that arrived relieve the teams and supported the Arab National force in the Khafji clearing operation, would have arrived in time to link up with all of teams before an aggressive Iraqi force could have compromised them all. While the Iraqi attack was a limited effort, had they attacked and siezed Khafji and dug in deep and if they held it like the NVA held Hue city, requiring the Marines to clear it street by street, fighting every step of the way, then a shift of US policy for the entire war might have occurred. Yes, those Iraqi forces holding Khafji would have been systematically destroyed, but it would have been at a price high enough for the American public and its government to think twice about liberating Kuwait. But all of this is Sunday morning quarterbacking. Also, if anyone here saw the movie Jarhead, you should know that it was all vile trash. The book was written by a self-admitted disgruntled Marine who was also a malingerer. A good book about the Marine Corps, written by an unbiased, non-military writer, is "Making the Corps" by Thomas Ricks. There is another one out just published called "American Spartans". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 LtCol West Thanks for the insight! interesting post and comment. -tom w 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastttt Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 IIRC the 106 has a .50 cal spotting rifle attached the cyclic rate for a m2hb is 600 to 800 rpm so a trained gunner could squeeze off single shots to simulate a 106 in spotting mode Originally posted by John Kettler: MeatEtr, There's a great example of this in one of those Wargames Research Group skirmish rule sets. I forget whether it was the 1956 War or the 1967 War, but in MOUT an Egyptian tank unit encountered an Israeli MG jeep recon unit, and both fled. Why? In the case of the jeeps, it's pretty obvious, but in the case of the tanks, it was all about psychology. The tankers ran into unexpected resistance and figured that if the opening argument consisted of HMG fire, then something much nastier was lurking nearby, such as 106mm recoilless rifle equipped jeeps the Israelis were known to have. With no infantry to protect them and a force of unknown size likely lying in wait, the tankers deemed discretion to be the better part of valor and split. Something similar seems to have happened that night at OP4 when the Iraqi tank advance unexpectedly got a very hot reception. I'll be the first to admit, thought, that the counterattack on foot was leagues beyond the jeep on tank encounter above. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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