My 2 cent

[fritzthemoose]

Having really great fun reading through all the whining moaning and defending that is going on here I could not hold myself to post my 2 cents too

We have 3 types of people here the CMSF haters, lovers and battlefront who is trying their best in damage control.

First a word to the haters: Suck it up and get a hold on it. Yes CMSF has nothing to do with CM except the name. Yes it is a RT clickfest with, currently, lots of flaws. Yes it will never be part of my or your harddrive. Yes I do feel your pain, your disapointment and frustration. But hey its a GAME not more and not less. Whats the point of pitching around that the new car has nothing in common with the old train :confused: This game is not CM it was never meant to be CM and it will never be CM. This game was designed for a different target customer group. Thats a business decision from battlefront. I good one or bad one i dont know and i dont care. If they earn a bundle with it great for them but still will not bring me CM back. If they loose a bundle great who cares will not bring me CM back either.

Secondly to the defenders: Please stop being annoyed that there are people out there who dont like what u like. I know its hard if that happens makes u feel stupid that u like it and stupid we are not right. So we have to defend it no matter what rationalize it no matter what.

As for battlefront. I do understand, being a marketing executive myself why u named it CM knowing very well that it is not. But dont be surprised that some people dont really like it and feel deceived. If u release a game with lots of bugs for whatever reason dont be surprised if people complain. In the end it was u who gave them the ammunition in not getting rid of the bugs.

As for the game. The graphics is very very good but in my opinion there are RT games out there with at least as good one and they are not brand new. As for the menu structure, yes u can get used to it after some time but there are games out there where it does not take so long to get used to it. As for the AI what do u expect? AI is like military intelligence an oximoron. So thats why I never ever play against the computer but only against humans. The AI in the CM WEGO system is as much intelligence I can suffer from a game. Or maybe its not so unrealistic at all in the end. I mean what intelligence do u expect from someone whos aim in live is to commit suicide. Or on the other hand from someone who gives up his family, his house, his pool, Steak dinners, baseball, air condition and volunteers to go to a good forsaken desert where everybody hates him and his chances of getting killed are pretty good.

As for realism. Please stop using this word. A GAME and especially a WARGAME can and should never be realistic. A game is supposed to be fun and realism is not fun especially when it comes to war. Oh yes we dont send the M1 but the M48 instead because otherwise the Syrian T-72 stands no chance it it would not be fair to the Syrians. Heck if u can win a truly realistic wargame why do u need officers training or a military academy. Anybody can do it anyway.

As for RT. Please stop illusioning yourslef that RT means realism. Thats why u train human beings to be a soldier because they are supposed to make intelligent and logical decision on their own based on their experience, judgement and their cognotive capabilities. Not because the commander is micromanaging every single move of every single soldier in his unit. And thats why some people dont like and never will like RT.

Look at it from that point of view. Some people love soccer. U can get the rules within a few minutes and then get instant action wether in a stadium as a spectator or in your backyard as a player. You dont need 100 of pages of manuals. U dont need ages to set up the pitch. U get instant and fun action. They dont mind that there is a lack of strategy or tactics in the game due to the fact that the general/manager cannot communicate with his soldiers/players for the most part of the game. He is pointing them into a general direction and then their own intellignce, which by the way is for the most part not much higher then the one of the AI (sorry for the hit I could not resits ).

Then there are people who love baseball. They dont mind reading to page after page of rules, stats and advice. They like to outsmart their oponnent before the even start playing. They dont want and need action. Therefore, they dont mind the batter fixing his gloves shoes belt... before even touching a bat. Then scratching his balls after which he has to fix is gloves, shoes, belt.... again. Then if being lucky and getting a hit making a dash for 1B which takes something between 6 and 20 seconds before stopping for a chat with the 1B man or the 1B coach while the manager, the pitcher and the catcher are trying to figure out how to outsmarkt the next hitter. Who then has to fix his gloves, shoes...... scratch his balls of c ourse before thouching a bat :mad:

The bottome line is having fun. So if u have fun with CMSF great if u have it with CM great.

[SKELLEN]

Originally posted by fritzthemoose:

First a word to the haters: Suck it up and get a hold on it. Yes CMSF has nothing to do with CM except the name. This game is not CM it was never meant to be CM and it will never be CM. This game was designed for a different target customer group. Thats a business decision from battlefront. I good one or bad one i dont know and i dont care. If they earn a bundle with it great for them but still will not bring me CM back. If they loose a bundle great who cares will not bring me CM back either.

If u release a game with lots of bugs for whatever reason dont be surprised if people complain. In the end it was u who gave them the ammunition in not getting rid of the bugs.

First of all welcome to the community and second, have you never heard of the word 'you'?

Whether it's a good marketing ploy or not including the name 'Combat Mission' in the title of the game will naturally make people compare or assume it's going to be similar to the original CM.

If this games flops and they lose a bundle I'm sure all here will care as BFC are only a small company and can't afford a flop and I doubt any other games will ever see the light of day.

As for the bugs that's not doing BFC any favours obviously but that's another story and I've already commented on this in another thread.

[fritzthemoose]

First of all welcome to the community and second, have you never heard of the word 'you'? [Wink]

Sorry for the u but that comes from realtime chatting while playing WEGO not enough time for proper things

Whether it's a good marketing ploy or not including the name 'Combat Mission' in the title of the game will naturally make people compare or assume it's going to be similar to the original CM.

Thats what I meant. It helped them push sales which is for sure good for them but then they should not be surprised that some out there feel deceived

If this games flops and they lose a bundle I'm sure all here will care as BFC are only a small company and can't afford a flop and I doubt any other games will ever see the light of day.

Thats what is called the risk running a business. They made the decision to more or less abandon their current CM customer base and tap into a new one. A new one they expect more business from. Although I am one of the CM group I dont have hard feelings because of that. Would probably do the same if my market anyalizys shows the potential. But then again they have to take the FLAK if it backfires. Even if the company goes bust. Yes some games might not see the light but whats the problem. There are lots of RT games out there to choose from and some other company will fill the void. As for CM it does not matter either thats history anyway.

As for the bugs that's not doing BFC any favours obviously but that's another story and I've already commented on this in another thread.

Exactly. They will fix them soon enough but at the current state it just does not look professional.

[SKELLEN]

Originally posted by fritzthemoose:

Thats what is called the risk running a business. They made the decision to more or less abandon their current CM customer base and tap into a new one. A new one they expect more business from. Although I am one of the CM group I dont have hard feelings because of that. Would probably do the same if my market anyalizys shows the potential. But then again they have to take the FLAK if it backfires. Even if the company goes bust. Yes some games might not see the light but whats the problem. There are lots of RT games out there to choose from and some other company will fill the void. As for CM it does not matter either thats history anyway.

Like the old saying goes "You reap what you sow" and the path BFC took with regard to this game was obviously something not just chosen over night but with their future in mind.

And like any decision made in life there is no crystal ball to look into to see the future and mistakes will be made along the way it's human nature. Of course BFC will take FLAK and are taking a huge amount of Flak already, but there will be a problem if this company goes bust, that's for sure.

Take your choice with regard to choosing another company's game but there is no game made even to this day that I'm aware of that's comparable to CM. And that is the sad fact of it all, who can replace BFC?

[fritzthemoose]

Take your choice with regard to choosing another company's game but there is no game made even to this day that I'm aware of that's comparable to CM. And that is the sad fact of it all, who can replace BFC? [/QB]

[Roter Stern]

Yes it will never be part of my harddrive

Well, it's pretty clear which side of the fence you're on

As for you saying that RT is not realistic... well I can't argue with that, but at the same time I think it's a thousand-fold more realistic than being able to spend several hours perfecting each and every 60-second stretch.

However BFC abandoned the idea of the old CM anyway

What is the old CM anyway? Is it being able to control troops down to squad level i a detailed combined arms tactical envoriment or is it being able to play the exact theatre you wanted? Think about that one.

I wish there was an option to reply to a post without bumping it up to the top

[Nidan1]

The oh so familiar posting style...........

[fritzthemoose]

Originally posted by The Louch:

[QB]

Well, it's pretty clear which side of the fence you're on

I am not taking sides here. Yes I dont like RT games for several reasons thats why I dont play them.

As for you saying that RT is not realistic... well I can't argue with that, but at the same time I think it's a thousand-fold more realistic than being able to spend several hours perfecting each and every 60-second stretch.

Both is highly unrealistic and as i said a game should not be realistic. At least one u want to sell. Be honest do u really want to read to 10000 of pages spend years training to be able to play a 100% realistic naval flight simulator (carrier landings and so on I mean) Not to mention that it would most likely be impossible to have that anyway. Realism is a marketing gag so that player believe they could do the real thing because they like to believe it. Heck I had people telling me that they are as good as Michael Schumacher just because they win at a F1 simulator and they were really believing it.

What is the old CM anyway? Is it being able to control troops down to squad level i a detailed combined arms tactical envoriment or is it being able to play the exact theatre you wanted? Think about that one.

For me thats simply the possibility to play the working WEGO against a human opponent per PBEM. I cannot and dont want to set aside hours for an online battle. I want to smoke my cigar drink my mojito and munch my peanuts while beating an opponent that is actually able of logical thinking. I cannot do that in Realtime.

Look I get your and BFCs point regarding Quickbattle. And yes if all of a sudden we get flooded with good balanced playable scenarios we dont need that. But look at the old one. It is around for ages now and there are very few good balanced scens. They take time to create lots of time. So i rather have the option of QBs then playing the same scen over and over again until a new one comes.

[Roter Stern]

Originally posted by fritzthemoose:

Both is highly unrealistic and as i said a game should not be realistic. At least one u want to sell. Be honest do u really want to read to 10000 of pages spend years training to be able to play a 100% realistic naval flight simulator (carrier landings and so on I mean) Not to mention that it would most likely be impossible to have that anyway. Realism is a marketing gag so that player believe they could do the real thing because they like to believe it. Heck I had people telling me that they are as good as Michael Schumacher just because they win at a F1 simulator and they were really believing it.

Well first of all, if you’re not interested in realism and are only looking for a “fun” game then what exactly are you doing playing Combat Mission? There are a lot of games which are incredibly fun and can be learned with-in 20-30min on-the-fly. And secondly, there is a pretty well defined difference between people who enjoy a realistic simulation, with-in the confines of what home-PC software can do, and those plain insane thinking of themselves as Michael Schumacher.

If anyone watches Top Gear, they actually had a segment about that, where Jeremy learned a particular race track on a particular car playing on a Playstation. He then proceeded to race that same track on that very same car in real life to see if his Playstation experience was of any help. Needless to say he didn’t even come close to his original in-game lap time.

Moral of that story? No matter how well made and designed, no matter how much detail is put into it, a simulation will always be just that – a simulation. Or a better way to put it – anything even remotely capable of being 100% realistic will not run on a home computer. So yes, in fact you are absolutely correct, “realism” is a marketing gimmick. However, does that prevent Combat Mission from being pretty much the most realistic squad-level warfare game currently available? No of course not.

Which of course brings me back to…

What is Combat Mission anyway?

For me thats simply the possibility to play the working WEGO against a human opponent per PBEM. I cannot and dont want to set aside hours for an online battle. I want to smoke my cigar drink my mojito and munch my peanuts while beating an opponent that is actually able of logical thinking.

If that is what Combat Mission is to you, than I can name at least a dozen of amazing games capable of PBEM multiplayer. You don’t need Combat Mission for that. Ever try Space Empires 5? That’s an amazing game. How about Laser Squad Nemesis? Last time I checked that has PBEM and is made by the guys who brought us such classic as X-Com. And don’t think for a second that those two I just named are simplistic games made for the A.D.D.-generation – not by a long shot.

Besides, what’s preventing you from playing WeGo PBEM in CMSF anyways? Didn’t we sacrifice TCP/IP WeGo (which is what I wanted) for it? I’m sure BFC won’t say it like that, but that’s basically what it came down to. So you better play PBEM and you better like it, or I want my TCP/IP fixed or somefink.

On the other hand, for me Combat Mission is … being able to control troops at squad level in a detailed combined arms tactical environment and being able to apply real-life tactics for real-life results. That is what CMAK/CMBB were for me.

Now let’s have a look at CMSF… does it do all of the above? Yes, of course. Does it do these things better? With out a doubt.

So is CMSF still a Combat Mission game or not? Of course it is, to say otherwise is just nonsense.

Look I get your point regarding Quickbattle.

Whoa… where did that come from? I miss the old QB just as much, so don’t get me started on it. However, to think even for a second that the only thing that made CMBB/CMAK great was the QB system is, yet again, just nonsense.

[fritzthemoose]

[/qb]

[dalem]

Fritz-

Could you please learn to use the quote function? It would make your posts worth reading.

-dale

[fritzthemoose]

Originally posted by Nidan1:

The oh so familiar posting style...........

sorry dont get that. registered today and this is my first post

[fritzthemoose]

Originally posted by dalem:

Fritz-

Could you please learn to use the quote function? It would make your posts worth reading.

-dale

was trying to figure it out worked once so far but dont know why. as soon as i delete soemthing in the old post its gone

[Pandur]

Needless to say he didn’t even come close to his original in-game lap time.

not to get too involved here but i have to add this...

such tests allways depends on what is measured in the end.

look, ofcourse he cant reach the lap time he drove in game, but a person with driving expirience and a reasonable driving sim(dont know what they took as driving "sim" on playstation)can, i my view, get a better lap time in the end under the same circumstances than someone wich doesnt know the track at all and never drove it befor, also if i would just have been virtually.

if they measured that it would have been in another light than the "you arent uber-racer-man" after you played a "sim" argument.

[Roter Stern]

Originally posted by fritzthemoose:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Nidan1:

The oh so familiar posting style...........

sorry dont get that. registered today and this is my first post </font>