Sharpshooters...

[dams]

Hi all,

I'm new on this forum so the first i'll do is say hello to everybody...

I've got two questions about the game:

First: I saw in another topic that we'll can use sharpshooters, that's nice but are they alone, or combined with observers, and what are their specificities?

Second question, in our squads, can we choose every soldier? and experience will be for each soldier or for the squad???

Thanks for future answers...

Dams from france

[MikeyD]

In CMSF a proper Stryker Battalion (or Heavy Battalion) TO&E is pretty strictly adheared to. A Stryker Battalion has been given a robust dedicated sniper Squad. Seven men, two sniper rifles, one of them the .50 cal. Also, each company comes with its own sniper team which looks to be three men.

Don't get too attached to the individuals. You only control the unit, not the individual. Actually, only the unit leader is given a name (naming the 400 individuals in a large scenario would look like a phone book!).

[Sgt.Rock of Easy Company]

Will that .50cal sniper rifle be able to take out light vehicles, like a BRDM or such?

[Sergei]

While a 12.7mm HMG would have an easy job with a BRDM-2, I don't see how a semi-automatic of that caliber would do the same. Consider WW2 anti-tank rifles, which were of heavier caliber and still not very successful. It takes either a heavier round or fully automatic fire to really 'take out' a light armoured vehicle.

[dan/california]

Kornet missile launchers however, mobile or otherwise would make excellent targets.

[ July 15, 2007, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: dan/california ]

[Sergei]

ATGM launchers are best used against enemy tanks, not for masking targets.

[YankeeDog]

Originally posted by Sergei:

While a 12.7mm HMG would have an easy job with a BRDM-2, I don't see how a semi-automatic of that caliber would do the same. Consider WW2 anti-tank rifles, which were of heavier caliber and still not very successful. It takes either a heavier round or fully automatic fire to really 'take out' a light armoured vehicle.

The modern .50 Barrent is far more accurate than a WWII-era ATR, and US Army snipers are specifically trained to take advantage of this accuract to disable light vehicles with the Barret, by targetting an essential vehicle component. A modern .50 AP round will easily go through an engine block, oil pan, etc. They're also trained to target important external components on more fully armored AFVs, like sights, radio antennas, etc.

This is more of a Spec Ops tactic, though. I'm not sure how applicable this is to the kind of full-out firefight situation you're more likely to see in CM:SF. Maybe some, but not a lot.

Cheers,

YD

[Sergei]

I suppose so, but still it would appear to me that it's a bit different whether you're disabling an unarmoured truck or an armoured BRDM. I don't think you have the same kind of certainty with the latter, as the round first has to go through the armour, which though thin would still alter the path, energy and shape of the round. Meanwhile you're not able to just spray the APC into a Swiss cheese like with a HMG. I guess it's possible, but I'm kind of skeptical about the ease of it.

I haven't really paid attention to how the anti-material qualities of M107 are modelled in game, but vehicles have plenty of systems modelled, and they have a great damage modelling. Even infantry fire can damage the more vulnerable systems like smoke launchers on a tank given enough time/volume.

[YankeeDog]

Glad to hear about the new damage modeling stuff, and in terms of 12.7mm sniper fire vs. AFVs in general, I'd mostly agree with you.

However, in the specific case of the BDRM-2, it's a VERY lightly armored vehicle by modern standards -- the armor is only 14mm thick, maximum. The 12.7mm AP-I round that the US Military is currently using has an RHA-equivalent penetration of over 20mm at 500m. So it's coming through that 14mm plate with a considerable amount of kinetic energy left, not to mention the incendiary it carries. And there's plenty of areas to aim for on a BRDM where there's something large and flammable and/or squishy not far behind the plate. Note, in particular, the driver's vulnerability to rounds coming in through the forward left quadrant.

Slightly thicker and/or more sloped armor, like on a BMP, should be a different story; you'd be limited to aiming for very specific areas where the armor is weak and/or damaging external systems. Not so with the BDRM.

Cheers,

YD

[MikeyD]

Its been awhile since I played with snipers (shows what a robust game CMSF is if even the 'fun' bits can get overlooked ) but I recall the .50 cal's use against light armor does feel pretty CMx1 AT rifle-like. By that I mean you get individual penetrations, you get individual crew casualties, you get supressed/panic reactions, and eventually you get an abandoned or killed vehicle.

Oh, and if you have to edge closer to get reliable penetrations you can also get hosed by the BMPs coaxial mg or whacked by its cannon. So snipers plinking armor is not without its hazards

[NoxSpartana]

How does the sniper rifle system work anyhow? Is it a sort 80% chance of hitting the target in which case the individual soldier in the squad dies (like say, in Company of Heroes) or is it more abstract?

[MikeyD]

CMSF tracks each bullet individually. Hit probability depends on range, weather conditions, soldier experience, the amount of cover, whether the target's wearing body armor, whether he's standing or crawling or running, etc. etc. etc. But generally speaking "Bang!" and someone on the other side will most probably fall down - or at least crap his pants as the bullet zings by his helmet.

[Dirtweasle]

Originally posted by YankeeDog:

The modern .50 Barrent is far more accurate than a WWII-era ATR, and US Army snipers are specifically trained to take advantage of this accuract to disable light vehicles with the Barret, by targetting an essential vehicle component. A modern .50 AP round will easily go through an engine block, oil pan, etc. They're also trained to target important external components on more fully armored AFVs, like sights, radio antennas, etc.

This is more of a Spec Ops tactic, though. I'm not sure how applicable this is to the kind of full-out firefight situation you're more likely to see in CM:SF. Maybe some, but not a lot.

Cheers,

YD

Just happen to catch a bit of "Modern Weapons" or some such on the TV last night. Only caught a bit of it, but from what I did see the Brits have a semi-auto .50 Sniper Rifle that uses some special ammo loads like an AP incendiary round that looked to be interesting.

Doubt it would be very effective against a tank, but my sense was against light armor it might just give a good show of itself.

[YankeeDog]

Ya; that's the round I'm referring to. The US has it as well. IIRC, it uses a tungsten penetrator tip with a pyrophoric metal tail end for the incendiary. For you Google "12.7mm x 99mm Incendiary", you should be able to find details about it.

Definitely nasty against anything with less than 20mm armor plating. . .

[Darius359au]

Marine demonstration of the M82A1