Paper Tiger Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Anybody else seeing this? I have tried and tried to get the AI to set up in buildings in the editor but it just won't do it. I even selected the houses only as set up zones but the AI sets up outside even if there's just the tiniest outside area in its designated set up area. They would rather set up in the middle of a road than take advantage of the cover available in their set up zones. I can post screenshots if that's going to help. I missed a good one a few minutes ago where four machine gun squads were lined up outside a house like sardines in a can while their HQ unit was deployed upstairs in the house just behind them. There probably wasn't any room for him in the half tile so he HAD to set up in the house. I'd imagine this will make MOUT operations a bit lame if it's going to happen a lot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodkin Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 This is what I noticed in 'Big City Blues' scenario, units hanging around outside perfectly good buildings, but when I checked in the editor the setup groups were not exactly painted to the building boundaries so I thought that the designer had made it that way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodkin Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 @Mark Ezra, Can you give us an answer on whether my comment about 'Big City Blues' having units set up outside buildings is a problem? Cheers mate. [ February 10, 2008, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: bodkin ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Originally posted by bodkin: This is what I noticed in 'Big City Blues' scenario, units hanging around outside perfectly good buildings, but when I checked in the editor the setup groups were not exactly painted to the building boundaries so I thought that the designer had made it that way. Re: Big City Blues was designed to NOT always have troops in given locations including buildings. I did that for reasons that PaperTiger discusses. When laying out buildings in the editor and applying the yellow AI setup locations you will often see the yellow "bleed" out of a building. This is entirely due to the exact location on the grid and the size/shape of a particular building. One building of a given size set up at a specific location and angle will except only the yellow inside the building. That same building and angle moved slightly allows the yellow to bleed. It is an editor specific problem that I hope will be addressed down the road. When making The big City Blues City Map I was able to keep many locations as building only setups. However these set up zones when designed NEED to be large enough to accommodate all the units being placed there. (another BIG reason to give more than 8 "groups" PLEASE!!) So the designer MUST make some trade offs when dealing with larger group formations. As a consequence I used a larger swath of yellow in some areas (with setup command for buildings set to both low and high Floor levels) which allows the AI to choose to actually go inside a building or not. I Expect BFC will address these and other editor issues at a later date By the way: The problems of inflexibility was FAR MORE PRONOUNCED in CMx1 and I will NEVER go back to that editor I once found so great...Very much spoiled by CMx2.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokossovski Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 I did some testing, and yes, the AI is extremely reluctant to set units up inside buildings when it sees an opportunity to leave them standing around in the street. In urban scenarios, this leads to easy slaughter of the AI. This is a real problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 Okay, here are a few screenshots from a small test I did this morning. This is a picture from the scenario editor; there are four groups deployed in the four houses from left to right. Also note that there are actually four AI groups, this picture shows only one but it's edited to show them all as one group so that I don't have to post 4 pictures. The first building occupies one whole tile. There's no problem with the set up for this group... everybody's in the building. But there is no set up area outside the building. The next building is placed on two half tiles. Both those tiles are selected as set up zones. How does the AI set up this group? and on the other side... That makes NOBODY deployed inside the building. They have obviously chosen not to. What about an askew building? Again, everybody deploys outside the building. What's wrong with them. Did somebody fart in the house? And finally, a larger building thats askew... at last, ONE unit sets upinside the building but all the rest deploy outside. Now, I don't remember seeing this before but then I haven't really been designing any MOUT situations where the defender is the AI.Last night, I seleced larger areas with buildings and open space and not once did an AI unit set up in a building. The ONLY way to get them to deploy inside a building is to paint the 'whole tile' buildings only. Otherwise, it's outside for you. So, is this a 1.06 bug like the sun not rising during a scenario anymore? This is a real ball breaker for MOUT operations where the AI is the defender. Please note that when attacking, the AI moves into buildings just fine. This is a SET UP issue only... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 Repeated the experiment, this time with different building settings. The above shots were done with 'Mixed'. The repeat was done with 'Roofs' for the single storied buildings. This time NOBODY set up in building D. No need to post more screenshots as I think you've all got the picture. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Hey, Paper Tiger, beautiful experiment! This is how I remember it from tweaking "Al Huqf" to become more challenging! As soon as the deployment tile only overlaps the building, you start getting problems ... Clearly a design decision, that maybe should be discussed?! Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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