Ways to make the game more newbie friendly...

[aka_tom_w]

excellent post!

and GREAT observations!

Thanks!

(I hope the BFC folks do in fact learn something of value from this thread.)

We are all asking for a tutorial scenario that will teach us what we need to know about how the game (CMx2) works so we can learn it quickly and play it without the added frustration of trying to figure out the game system and the interface when things are not obvious.

-tom w

Originally posted by irslutz:

I don't post much on these forums (don't know if I ever had) but this is a topic that interests me greatly.

I work as a game designer and love a really wide variety of games. I like Combat Mission as much as I like Tony Hawk Pro Skater or Zelda. The problem is that I have friends would might like this game, but they have a hard time coming to grips with it. This means that I have a hard time finding opponents and have played a lot less multiplayer than I would like. Let me tell you about my initial experience with the game and what I think could make the game more digestible.

I first tried Combat Mission because it had gotten such great reviews and it sounded like something I would enjoy. However, I did not have a good time when I started out. In Combat Mission learning the controls and learning the strategy are two different tasks. As a first time player I was overwhelmed, and put the game aside.

Months later I came back to the game because I wanted a new war game. My second experience went much better. I think the key difference is because I now had some understanding of the controls, I just needed to learn how best to use them the second time.

When it comes down to it there are really just a hand full of things that a new player needs to know. Theses things may not make them a great player, but it will give them the tools to make decisions good or bad.

1. They need to learn how to move. Some orders like Sneak or Fast require almost no explanation because the player has a vague, but inherent, understanding of them. What they need to be told is that moves like advance and assault increase speed and moral, but make their men more tiered. Also, they need to be told that Move and Advance are the two orders they will use the most, and that the rest are for special cases.

2. They need to learn that they don't need to issue shoot orders, and that its often a good idea if they don't.

3. They need to be expressly informed how Order Delay works.

4. They need to be told the general strategy for attacking a tank with either another tank or anti-tank gun.

This information needs to be presented to the player right up front, in a place that is easy for them to find. It also needs to offer hard guidelines (i.e. don't Advance over 60 meters). Even if this was just text in a mission briefing it would help a new player.

While I am sure there are other more advanced changes that could be made. I think if you simply combined this with an in game order reference then it would at least help people get their feet under them.

[Dschugaschwili]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

We are all asking for a tutorial scenario that will teach us what we need to know about how the game (CMx2) works so we can learn it quickly and play it without the added frustration of trying to figure out the game system and the interface when things are not obvious.

-tom w

Actually, we may need two sets of tutorial scenarios. Depending on how much of the handling of the game will carry over from CMx1 to CMx2, CMx1 players may already know some things while having to unlearn other things. Those who have never played a CM game before will approach the game differently. One tutorial for both groups may be difficult.

Dschugaschwili

[flamingknives]

I think it would be really great if the game came with a book or .pdf file or somefink that had a description of what each command, terrain etc. could be expected to do.

It'd be great! We could call it a.... manual! Yeah!.

And people could read it...

[vincere]

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> I think it would be really great if the game came with a book or .pdf file or somefink that had a description of what each command, terrain etc. could be expected to do.

It'd be great! We could call it a manual! Yeah!.

And people could read it. </pre>

[DarthJames]

The tutorial in Rome: Total War was fantastic, both for new players and TW veterains.

Just remember, it's a tutorital, don't be afraid to take control away from the player and just show him what's going on:

"Look here, the Russians are attacking across this field, watch how they get mown down"

"This officer has binoculars, and has used them to spot an enemy attempting to flank your force, issue a MOVE order to put this squad into a blocking position"

"Good, the Russians are retreating..intelligence reports that there is a tank somewhere beyond our lines, with the infantry currently routed, now would be a good time to send our own armour out to destroy it; issue a HUNT order"

I think that I've hit the key to what I wanted when I started this thread. The game needs a tutorial, but it should in no way be freeform. As a tutorial the player should be guided on rails through as many game concepts as possible, thus obliviating the need for my 'situational pop up's' suggestion.

Right now all the tutorial scenario's play exactly the same as any other scenario, and that is the mistake that I hope BF doesn't repeat.

[Barrold]

While I agree with you on the RTW tutorial, I would add the caveat that it worked well for that system.

I am not so sanguine that such a system would translate to a CM scenario. However, I do think somefink will be done in this regard to provide more of an in-game introduction to the command system. While I am still happy with the current set-up and yelling RTFM, I can see where this is not the friendliest marketing.

If you have had a chance to play a scenario you might notice that the actions of the AI are not scripted such that an expected reaction can be counted upon.

Of course this is very dependant on the new system, which I don't know anything specific about, but I don't expect certain aspects to be radically different.

Your example, while quite cool, seems more suited to a FPS or roll playing game. The primary concept that you might just have to push the "I Believe" button is the free-form.

There isn't going to be a rock-paper-scissors combination answer that will fit the same situation everytime it is encountered. The flexibility of the system not only allows for the amount of scenarios and quick-battles, but each players approach to the situation can succeed if applied correctly.

This flexibility has contributed greatly to the longevity of the game. Tactics that generally produce favorable results can still hand you a great loss.

Steve has said the CMBB demo was all about showing the differences and advances made from CMBO.

Re-playing the scenarios several times while waiting for the game release was instructive to handling fragile infantry facing MG's, how even a crap tank rules when the other guy has none, and how to easily waste what little artillery you sometimes have.

I really hope the solution to informing noobs isn't a system on rails that holds their hands but limits the instructive experience gained by being able to explore, experiment, and adapt.

BDH

[aka_tom_w]

A VERY similiar tutorial is included in my OTHER favourite game.

SimCity 4.0

It will take you step by step through almost every control and every part of the interface. After you have played the tutorial once you then have a good feel for how to control and direct the game and it makes the user feel self confident and self reliant and NOT frustrated by the interface because the tutorial took control and stepped me through every phase of the game and almost every element of the user interface and the said:

"Now go ahead...

You are on your own

you now know all you need to get and playing quickly and painlessly"

(or something like that)

-tom w

[Philippe]

I think the key with the tutorial scenarios is to focus on simple game functions, one at a time.

I've said in other posts that these things would be boring, and I'm not kidding.

The lack of scripted AI is not an obstacle.

You use the same map, over and over. It's one kilometer square.

Tucked away in the back corner, deep in a forest on the reverse slope of a hill you put a victory flag. And a single enemy FO who can see nothing and who is out of ammunition.

the rest of the map is an open field surrounded by various kinds of trees and a few hills.

You are given one platoon and told to ignore the victory flag.

Six or seven scenarios get used up just going over simple commands. Like double clicking on the platoon leader to highlight the entire platoon. Like moving the platoon across the field and editing waypoints on a subsequent turn.

Like moving a column of jeeps and trucks down a road (I really, really hope that one will be idiot simple).

Maybe eventually there is a scenario with a lone machine gun at the other end of the field. This is where you demonstrate the difference between walk, advance, and human wave. The briefing in each case tells you what to do. There are so few pieces on the board what they do will be fairly predictable, so you don't need scripted AI.

And for the basic commands, if you only really have to worry about one side, you really don't need scripted AI.

The key is to figure out what commands people really don't understand, and not to have more than a dozen of them. Or maybe have them in two tiers: after a certain point you tell the player he can advance to training scenarios, but might want to come back from time to time to check out things like the human wave command.

[DarthJames]

In addition to commands, I think that a tutorial also has to focus on the 'we go' system (assuming that this is still in place). Off the top of my head, CM is the only game I've played with this system, and it's going to take new players a while to get used to the idea of issuing orders for 60 seconds and watching them play out, rather than having real time control over his units.

To properly demonstrate this, you would need at least one point in a tutorial where it goes:

"Let's move our tank over there"

*35 secs into the turn*

"Uh, oh. Looks like an enemy AT gun destroyed our tank because it was hidden from view. Let's try this again, but instead sending our infantry to screen the tank from hidden enemies..."

From all the replies and disagreements, I think we can agree one thing:

The key to a good tutorial will be to strike a balance between something that plays like part of the game, but is still scripted and 'on rails' so that the player is never out of his depth.