I read the introduction for Leningrad 1944 and what a pile of shit

[Sirocco]

Originally posted by TheHumanMage:

Sirocco this conversation has expand by far over the game and Leningrad winter of 43-44

I understand what you are saying and agree with you

But the last 30+ post or so have not been about the game or winter 43-44 over Leningrad

Of course it has, which is why I commented, to attempt to bring it back on topic. And apparently you've just accepted your original, and highly insulting, post was mistaken.

Therefore I declare this nonsense at an end.

[TheHumanMage]

No the part of Winter playing a major part for the Germans during 43-44 is still BS since Weather is neutral it affects all sides the same

The side that dosent prepare for it gets punished, and by winter 43-44 both sides were prepared for it

[Sirocco]

equipment that wasn't designed for such harsh conditions

I think we covered that point already.

[Guest Mike]

So which part of the intro for the 1943 campaign is BS?

This is what it says about weather:

The Wehrmacht is suffering from shortages and the bitter elements, but it was no where near the extreme conditions the people trapped in Leningrad were going through.

so it says the Soviets weer having a harder time of the weather than the Germans weer.

you are full of it!

[TheHumanMage]

No we did not. The Germans were not taken completly by suprise by winter 43-44. The winter of 43-44 was at the front almost exactly the same as a winter in Germany.

[Sirocco]

I believe the average temperature in January in Leningrad, modern St Petersburg, would be -12C, while in Berlin it would be -1C. Of course I could be mistaken, not being a weather grog.

[Guest Mike]

OK - I'm starting a book on how many posts until siroco gives up - anyone for <10??.......

[Sirocco]

Originally posted by Stalin's Organist:

OK - I'm starting a book on how many posts until siroco gives up - anyone for <10??.......

I'm heading straight for Moscow, no detours to Stalingrad for me.

[Inigo Montoya]

Sirocco, I will attempt to bring you up to speed.

TheHumanMage seems displeased with the scenario descriptions for the Leningrad scenarios. I have compiled a list of his complaints.

Leningrad 1942:

"On 8 September, 1941, the German offensive code named “Barbarossa” reached the outskirts of Leningrad. What was to transpire was one of the most horrid chapters of World War Two. The inhabitants of Leningrad not only endured what can only be described as massive bombing and artillery barrages, but also faced a cruel fate of starvation and conditions that were so cold, it’s a wonder anyone survived."

TheHumanMage feels this introduction is inadequate because

1) It should claim (in TheHumanMage’s opinion) that the German LW was three times larger than the Soviet VVS.

2) It should claim (in TheHumanMage’s opinion) that the Soviet pilots were skilled.

Leningrad 1943:

"The siege of Leningrad continued throughout 1943. The Wehrmacht was suffering from shortages and the bitter elements, but it was nowhere near the extreme conditions the people trapped in Leningrad were going through. There were a few things that made life more tolerable, including a road of ice that during winter was the primary form of re-supply. The rest of the year ships brought in needed relief.

By this time, the Soviet pilots were getting more numerous and much better in combat. The Germans on the otherhand while still excellent were becoming fatigued and were having much more difficulty in replacing quality pilots and aircraft.

By the end of 1943 the Soviets would start to exact their revenge…"

TheHumanMage feels this introduction is inadequate because

1) He does not feel the Soviet pilots were getting more numerous.

2) He does not feel the Wehrmacht suffered from shortages.

3) He does not feel the Wehrmacht suffered from the bitter elements.

Leningrad 1944:

"With the siege lifted in January 1944, the Soviets were now on the offensive. The retreating Germans not only had to deal with the crushing numbers the Soviets were throwing at them, but also the unforgiving winter with equipment that wasn’t designed for such harsh conditions.

The Luftwaffe, while still superior in pilot skill and better quality aircraft, would eventually succumb to the massive onslaught that the V-VS was unleashing. In the year that followed, the Germans would not only be pushed out of Russia, but would also realize that they had lost the war and were now going to be the ones under siege."

TheHumanMage feels this introduction is inadequate because

1) He feels the winter of 1944 played, as he puts it, “ZERO part.”

2) He disagrees that the Germans had “equipment that wasn’t designed for such harsh conditions.”

3) He contests the phrase, "while still superior in pilot skill and better quality aircraft..."

Many have tried to reason with him. Stalin's Organist, Rune, and I have given up and are now choosing to ignore him.

Stalin - I'm predicting an even dozen more postings from Sirocco before he joins us. So 10 or less, you win the bet, 12 or more I win. If he goes 11 and then gives up on him, we'll call it a draw.

[TheHumanMage]

Sirocco I would like to bring you up to be speed about Inigo Montoya

1 Inigo Montoya belives that the Soviet Union had a limitless supply of men and material

2 Inigo Montoya does not post any sources and has no logic

3 Inigo Montoya can not argue with sources so Inigo Montoya does not argue at all but tries to bad mouth me at every corner

4 Inigo Montoya has never been right about anything in Inigo Montoya life

5 Inigo Montoya is a failure

6 Inigo Montoya likes puting words into other peoples mouths

7 Inigo Montoya has been proven wrong at every corner

8 Inigo Montoya does not understand that you can not compare items of significant different cost

9 Inigo Montoya does not understand that If a plane costs 10 times as more to build then it should inflict 10 times as many casulties otherwise it is a waste of resources

10 Everything Inigo Montoya says is wrong

[Sirocco]

Now that that's over I think the general concensus would be that the introduction in question has proven to be perfectly reasonable. Unless, of course, anyone would like to question it, in a respectful and mature manner.

[Sixxkiller]

Originally posted by TheHumanMage:

Sirocco I would like to bring you up to be speed about Inigo Montoya

10 Everything Inigo Montoya says is wrong

Odd, but I kinda like number 10!

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally posted by Sirocco:

Now that that's over I think the general concensus would be that the introduction in question has proven to be perfectly reasonable. Unless, of course, anyone would like to question it, in a respectful and mature manner.

I think everyone now agrees that the introduction is just fine.

And Sixx, don't forget that I'm illogical, a failure, and will never amount to anything. My mother was a hamster and my father smelt of elderberries.

[Sixxkiller]

[/qb]

[lakespeed]

Originally posted by Inigo Montoya:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sirocco:

Now that that's over I think the general concensus would be that the introduction in question has proven to be perfectly reasonable. Unless, of course, anyone would like to question it, in a respectful and mature manner.

I think everyone now agrees that the introduction is just fine.

And Sixx, don't forget that I'm illogical, a failure, and will never amount to anything. My mother was a hamster and my father smelt of elderberries. </font>