Sneak vs Move vs Run

[Monwar]

Just need to make very sure - when I move through open ground, which move results in the LEAST casualty? Run certainly sux, move is too slow. So is sneak the best possible move? I guess it depends on situation. Pls let me know your advice.

[Brightblade]

Best thing is to pin the opposing infantry/guns when you have to cross open terrain. Or use smoke (by cheap artillery or vehicles) to cover your advance.

Sneaking seems to be cancelled sometimes when your infantry is taking fire. I´m not sure if that was intended with that order, but it seems to work a bit like the "Hunt" order for vehicles with guns or the "Move to Contact" order in CMBB.

It can be useful if you expect enemy in some woods or something, but quite annoying when your infantry stops on open ground.

However, it won´t work every time and I don´t know why...

[Michael Emrys]

Sneak also is the slowest of the three. Not a good thing when you are crossing open ground. And additionally the troops tire faster with Sneak than with Move.

What do you have against Run? In BO if I had a lot of open ground to cover, I would Run my troops 50-80m and then have them stop and hide for a turn while they caught their breath. Preferably in a fold of ground that would give them some protection. Supression of enemy fire while you are doing this is important. Masking your move with smoke if you have it also helps.

Michael

[Fredrock1957]

I've never had good success with the Sneak command except maybe while lurking in some marsh or woods. I agree with Brightblade I have had the units with Sneak orders who just stop (I guess for a smoke break)

In CMBO the best way to cover open ground (IMO) is to use the Run command with covering fire or smoke. Without a MG or mortar or something to keep the enemy's head down I don't care what you use to span the open ground.. you will lose some units...

Wait if you havent seen how the MG works in CMBB... covering open terrain without supression fire "forgetaboutit"

FredRocker

[Von Markko]

Stop Moving across the open. Shoot Fool!!!

I've played a lot of war games, and no enemy has ever been killed by one of my men moving. Shooting, thats another story...

[Von Markko]

It works like this:

Run: Guys move fast, and shoot a little. Not ever a good combat oriented order. Will run right past an enemy. Moving against an MG? Do the math: Run speed 10 mph. MG speed 2800 fps. Open ground covered 100yards. Bullets fired 248,984,284. Humm...run across the field or just shoot across the field. If you have to run, guys are going to die.

Move. You can't shoot from the open unless your dominating your FoF. Your guys will scoot to ANY cover at first incomming. But moving guys will shoot!!!

Sneak. Good for movement untill the shooting starts, then RUN (or cancel, hide, pause, and rotate toward enemy.) I make my leaders sneak on an advance so their identity is hid by fog of war.

They are a little less likely to take fire.

If you HAVE to move across the open w/ no support:

You are making a mistake.

If you want to test, look at exposure % from the firing MG vs a mover or a runner. I will test this now...;

[Von Markko]

Test Results:

All guys in the open have the same exposure. 75%.

Same for run, move, sneak, and crawl. But...when the defending unit has no specific fire order, he will shoot at the running guy most of the time. So when crossing an open field, run the guys you want to get shot at the most. Dont forget to sneak that leader! When crossing a small area, sneak if undetected, then run to cover then hide. next turn crawl a micron toward your enemy (so you dont get up) then rotate toward that same enemy and your guys will come up firing. Always bach to that firing stuff.

:cool:

[Los]

In real life, crossing relatively open terrain under fire we either run or crawl. That's why I prefer to run, gets me where I have to go faster, less time under the baleful gaze of the muzzle. If I have to cross open terrain and the distance is not too far that it can be covered within a turn or a turn and a half, I have overwatching fires out, and dash from one cover to the next.

If there's enough overwatching fires and time, do it one unit at a time, if you don't have time or enough overwatch then dash all at once but more than likely the first guy will get hit.

If your afraid of open terrain better stay away from CMAK...

Los

[Stumpff]

For the sake of my own sanity I'll just make up a situation.

A US force of two platoons advances to the edge of a forrest where it encounters a field, on the far end of the field machine gun and rifle fire errupts from German positions.

Platoon A consists of 3 rifle squads, 1 Bazooka, and 1 .50cal. Platoon B consists of 3 rifle squads and a bazooka.

Platoon A takes up positions and establishes a base of fire using the .50 as it's main fire power.

While A keeps Jerry tied up platoon B splits it's squads into half teams and advances on both sides of the field in full sprint, 3 half teams on one side, 3 on the other along with the zook and commander.

With A keeping up a steady rate of fire, B is able to flank the Jerry positions and overwhelm the defenders.

[Tank Ace]

sneak is 50 times slower.

[Mailer]

For short distances from one piece of cover to another, I somtimes find crawl to be a good move.

For a long run across open field under heavy fire, I use suppression fire to cover the boys while they RUN.

If there is cover along the way, I do it in a couple of step, leapfrogging my way from cover to cover.

to move a platoon across a dangerous field. Have the first squad run, the second one pause 15 then run, and the third pause 30 and run. I also have the officer run during the whole thing as well.

That way, one squad doesn't take the full force of concentrated fire.

and in war, you NEVER do something piecemeal, unless you fighting guerilla style.

[Mailer]

oh, and regarding SNEAK. I use it mostly when I want to probe the enemy, or move silently to contact. Say there is a group of buildings that you SUSPECT have enemy presence.

I might put a squad on point, using the sneak command to move toward the building. Maybe the other squad or three are a bit behind also moving on sneak. This way, you don't give away your position until you get as close as possible.

Now once the enemy detects your point guy, everyone goes off sneak and opens fire. If it all worked correctly, you got pretty close before engagement began, and you have much less distance under fire to cross.

Compare it to a STEALY SWAT ENTRY. They quitly open the door and sneak through the house looking for the SUSPECT. Once the suspect is spotted, it gets REAL LOUD and the SWAT TEAM takes the suspect in custody or kills with lightning speed before the suspect can get his balance.

[JasonC]

CMBO - Run in the open, move inside cover.

Sneak only the last 10m to get LOS when moving to the edge of a woodline or up to building windows. Only crawl behind a wall.

CMBB - Advance in the open, move inside cover.

Advance even in cover if inside 100m from the enemy with LOS existing or possible. Rest a minute whenever you see "tired" - just "tiring" is OK. Also use "move" for all medium and slow teams, for all long distance moves (over 100m), and in deep snow or mud.

Run only in completely dead ground, preferably open terrain, to reposition a reserve quickly. 200m is about the limit, distance wise. Move to contact only for a point half squad. Assault takes too long and the benefits compared to advance are minimal.

Whenever your men "sneak" (= crawl) only leave the order if they are headed to unoccupied cover within 10m. Otherwise halt and shoot back.

Greens in command can use "advance" - so keep them in command or they will be useless in the open.

Conscripts cannot use "advance". Russian ones can "human wave" instead, but only to get to cover closer to the enemy. I.e. to ram reluctant men across open ground under fire. Expect half of them to make it and to herd the rest into a second wave 3-5 minutes behind the first. Do not try to ram them right on top of firing defenders, they will just die.

I hope this helps.

[Mailer]

I like those tips on the human wave. I'm not any good with it.

I've always used it to drive them at the enemy which usually leads to their deaths, but I have always wondered, if you coordinated a whole platoon charging in human wave, would they be able to overrun a position?

I've never had a coordinated human wave, usually just one squad, as I most generally use advance when available in CMBB

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Mailer:

...I have always wondered, if you coordinated a whole platoon charging in human wave, would they be able to overrun a position?

I've noticed a tendency of CM players to use too small a body of troops to accomplish tasks. This just gets them worn down or killed outright. Single squads seldom have enough firepower to take on anything like an equal force, especially if it is in good cover or dug in and not severely attrited or broken. I try to use whole platoons as maneuver units with another platoon or at least an MG providing cover fire. Using whole platoons makes it easier to keep them all under command too.

Michael

[Mailer]

That's a good point, Michael. It is important to concentrate fire. I keep the bulk of my troops together and keep a few on the flanks, and a fair amount in reserve to keep my battle plan flexible.

Spreading your offense or defense too thin will usually result in disaster.

[ October 28, 2003, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Mailer ]