Mailer

I used to hate the ACW also, until I learned more about it.

Yes, the ctrl-c key is very useful. Its good to crank it up when you want to view the whole battlefield from above. When I first starting playing, I wondered, "why are these men so big and these houses so tiny." They looked like giants. Then when I checked the hotkey screen, I was surprised to find I could adjust the size of men and units.

Carl, I'm looking for someone to play pbem in a semi-slow game (maybe two turns a day.) I have both cmbo and cmbb and am willing to play either. also, the reason infantry gets exhausted in cmbb after short running times, is that with the addition of the ADVANCE command, running simulates a hard SPRINT. Advance simulates those quick jogs between cover, etc. Use MOVE to get your men near the front, use ADVANCE when under enemy fire and engaging, and use run when you have to get somewhere (or away from somewhere) really fast. anyway, I've never played a human opponent, but have played a TON of singleplayer so I should make a good opponent.

The first scenerio I played actually was on Barbarossa to Berlin. It was street fighting in the center of Berlin, and every inch gained was hard fought. Before I knew it, my tanks were exploding in the streets and buildings were catching fire. My troops ran around, firing chaotically at everything that moved, and in the end, I took a bad defeat. Go ahead and dive into a difficult mission, you will probably learn that way faster than any other other.

Yes, I am definately looking forward to Combat Mission 2, and don't want them to slow down on that. Your idea about leasing the engine out to an independant group is a good one, though. Battlefront is a small company, not a bunch of corporate ceos with their hands tied around their balls, so they just might be able to pull something like that off. Combat Mission already has a HUGE modding community, they could probably put together a team right there, and with a low overhead like that, it would certainly have a good shot at financial success.

This might sound stupid,and well, it probably is, but what does everyone think about a CIVIL WAR or NAPOLEAN game using an engine similar to combat mission? I know, I know, many of you want to rip my face off for even suggesting it. I don't even know if your average WW2 gamer has any interest in Civil War/Napolean, but I think the world is hurting for a really new take on these periods. Civil War fans need a game that really gets them up close with the gunpowder, blood, and tears of the Civil War, and the combat mission engine is one of the first Wargames I've played that really brought the battlefield to life. Of course, the first problem is the time scale. Civil war battles lasted hours and even days, and in real time, well, you would be playing the battle of Gettysburg for months. So I think the time and distance scale would have to be more abstracted, and because of command and communication difficulties, I figure the turn phase would be MUCH longer than a minute. There would have to be a lot of other changes as well, but I think something at least SIMILAR to Combat Mission for Civil War/Napolean game could be really cool. Hex based gaming just doesn't bring the contrast of pagentry and savagry that a civil war game should. I have Civil War General 2 and both the Sid Meier Civil War games, but I need more, and I need it to be even better. Combat Mission is clearly one of the best Wargames EVER designed and I would like to see some of the philosophies of this excellent system applied to other wargames. So, start the onslaught of taunts and insults, I'm ready for them. Thanks, Mailer.

LOS, Yes, its showing correctly now. Don't know why it was showing all that screwball stuff before. Anyway, those look great. What are you doing that stuff in? There is a very definate Pacific Look to those images. EDIT- I mean, what is MikeT doing that work in? [ November 04, 2003, 03:30 AM: Message edited by: Mailer ]

Idiot that I am, I didn't warn about spoilers in my AAR. If I screwed up someones enjoyment of this excellent scenerio, I apologize. I have edited now to correct the oversight. Thank you, Mailer

HI ALL I did see that episode of Band of Brothers, which is why I played it. I remembered that they warned the English Tankers about the panzers, but they just pompously drove down the road and got brewed up anyway. But in the BoB series, I don't remember seeing so many Panzers so I wasn't expecting so many. Also, A Hell of A Licking IS the scenerio I played, and it came with my SPECIAL EDITION version I bought (I actually bought CMBB first and have just recently bought CMBO) Yes, I'm pretty certain you can resign command at higher levels without getting executed. They just don't treat officers the way they treat enlisted men. I Could be wrong though. Mailer

Tar, Huh?

Los, Looking forward to seeing it. Is that a link you put on your post or is it html code to show an image? It looks like a path to something but its not showing correctly. To anyone, Hey, I would like to get involved in a pbem session with someone. I've never played multiplayer Combat mission before and would really like to give it a try. I'll talk about my play style and skill level below and if I sound like a good match, I would love to play someone. 1. Skill level--I'm pretty good. I understand the combined arms philosophy employed in modern warfare and am fairly effective at using it in the game. I'm certainly not the best player and I do lose to the AI in singleplayer from time to time, but this is usually more because I am overly cautious and don't get all my objectives early enough. 2. I'm a semi-cautious player. I'm usually pretty careful with my units. That doesn't mean that I won't jump on an opportunity and risk it all from time to time, but I'm fairly prudent. 3. I'm a good defender and a decent attacker. I can hold my own either way. 4. Willing to play axis OR allies in either CMBB or CMBO, although my effectiveness varies with each nation. 5. I don't do gamey stuff. BUT, I won't cry about everything and say everything my opponent does is gamey either. I don't like cry babies. 6. I play the game seriously, but I'm looking for a fun challenge, not victory at all costs. That means I won't cheat or exploit and I expect my opponent to do the same. 7. I would like to start with a semi-slow game, maybe two turns a day or something. I'm flexible though, so that can be worked out if I find an opponent. 8. I'm a big fan of combined arms--healthy selection of infantry with a few tanks, armored vehicles, and a few support vehicles. I like big tank battles too and even infantry only, but prefer the force balance I initially described. Once again, I'm flexible on this. 9. I like most all terrain types, etc. Would probably like my first multiplayer NOT to be in DEEP snow and HARSH conditions, but once again, pretty flexible here. 10. Did I say no cry babies? 11. Random quick battle or pre-designed scenerio--either is fine with me. 12. I'm interested in these two minute pbem turns I've read about. Would gladly play this way or standard--flexible again. 13. Please be patient with me. I'm pretty good at this game, but never played a human before, and I might be in for a rude awakening. So if I end up getting creamed--sorry. I expect to do fairly well, though. 14. more than happy to play with any one from any nation, as long as you know enough English to tell me your email address. I figure we'll let our rifles do the talking. Despite a few loud mouth idiots here in America, most of us Americans like Europeans and people of other nations. 15. it MUST be a friendly game. I'm not looking to bust anyone's balls and I don't want mine busted either. I know I must seem like a prick listing a fifteen point description of who I want to play with, but I'm really just trying to make sure that I don't waste someone else's time. I'm a really patient guy, and at the very worst will make a polite opponent. At best, I'll give you a run for your money! thanks all, Mailer

I guess if I had thought about it, I would have remembered that the units only date back as far as 1941 in CMBB. I haven't played CMBB in a while because I actually bought that one first. I just recently got CMBO about two weeks ago so I'm playing a lot of it now. Yeah, I really would like to see an early war version, it would probably be called CM: Blitzkrieg and would include the invasion of Poland, France, etc. Maybe even a Hypothetical Operation Sea Lion. Korean war--you know, many of the units are so similar in the Korean War and WW2, that it would be quite easy to move the game into that territory. I wonder how difficult it would be to make a mod for the Korean war. One problem I do see is that air power played a REALLY important role in Korea, but this could probably be modeled in a fairly reasonable fashion. Is there any unique terrain in the Korean war that would be difficult to model with the CM engine? Someone above mentioned Gary Grigsby's Uncommon Valor--just thought I would confirm that this is an EXCELLENT game. And lastly, I bet most of you who have expressed a lack of interest in a Pacific Front version of CM will probably be in line with the rest of us to purchase it when its released. I mean, come on, you won't be able to resist. You'll see that copy of it sitting on the store shelves or available on the internet and it will look so damn good that you won't be able to stop yourself from shelling out the fifty bucks. I could be wrong, but I imagine that it would probably be a financial success for Battlefront. Thanks all, Mailer

Louie, Ah, I see. You're saying that your primary interest in the theater revolves around planes, naval, etc that isn't modeled in Combat Mission, and that personally, you're not much into the sort of terrain and engagments that occured on the ground and is modeled by the combat mission system. In that case, Pacific Front may not be for you. I do think that there probably are a number of people who do like these engagments though, so hopfully they will reconsider. Louie the Toad, have you ever played Gary Grigsby's Uncommon Valor? This game simulates the Naval Combat in the South Pacific and is REALLY good. If you haven't played it you should give it a try. Thanks for all the responses. Mailer

oh, and although someone said in another thread that Talonsoft's Rising Sun was missing something the other two titles had--I have to say that Rising Sun was a very compelling game. The scenerios were very good, and well designed. There were some tense engagments in the Operation Shoestring Campaign. (Gaudalcanal) Like the time the Japanese stormed my base at night. My boys had been making good progress at Guadalcanal, but during the night, Jap boats managed to land tons of infantry on the island, and they came in hard. It went like this-- A flare went up and machine gun fire started pouring out of the nearby jungle. "Banzai!" they cried out and they charged the paremeter. My boys opened up with machine gun fire, but they couldn't see anything so they just fired at the muzzleflashes in darkness (yes, this is modeled in the game.) I ordered a flare to be fired above the jungle, but it was a dud and my guys still couldnt see anything. By then a wave of Japanese had crossed the field under cover of darkness and it was face to face fighting between them and my men. They broke through my forward line and were charging through my encampments. By now I had some flares up in the air, so the night was lit up and there were japs and americans all intermixed, engaged in brutal close combat. "BANZAI!" More charged through the break in my line and were running willy nilly into my encampment. But by now my boys on the front line were pulling it together, and my reserve units were getting organized and really bringing fire to bear on the enemy. More Flares went up. The Japanese were losing steam, their push into my ranks was devestating, but costly to them as well. I got some morters into postion and soon I them pinned. The fighting reached a crescendo, and finally, the japs broke, they turned and fled back toward the jungle, taking heavy fire the whole way. When the dust cleared, I was awarded a marginal victory. It was just another night on the Pacific front. So, what I'm saying is that Rising Sun offered plenty of great gaming moments just like the other two in the series, and i think the same could be said of a combat mission venture into pacific territory. Mailer

oh, and although someone said in another thread that Talonsoft's Rising Sun was missing something the other two titles had--I have to say that Rising Sun was a very compelling game. The scenerios were very good, and well designed. There were some tense engagments in the Operation Shoestring Campaign. (Gaudalcanal) Like the time the Japanese stormed my base at night. My boys had been making good progress at Guadalcanal, but during the night, Jap boats managed to land tons of infantry on the island, and they came in hard. It went like this-- A flare went up and machine gun fire started pouring out of the nearby jungle. "Banzai!" they cried out and they charged the paremeter. My boys opened up with machine gun fire, but they couldn't see anything so they just fired at the muzzleflashes in darkness (yes, this is modeled in the game.) I ordered a flare to be fired above the jungle, but it was a dud and my guys still couldnt see anything. By then a wave of Japanese had crossed the field under cover of darkness and it was face to face fighting between them and my men. They broke through my forward line and were charging through my encampments. By now I had some flares up in the air, so the night was lit up and there were japs and americans all intermixed, engaged in brutal close combat. "BANZAI!" More charged through the break in my line and were running willy nilly into my encampment. But by now my boys on the front line were pulling it together, and my reserve units were getting organized and really bringing fire to bear on the enemy. More Flares went up. The Japanese were losing steam, their push into my ranks was devestating, but costly to them as well. I got some morters into postion and soon I them pinned. The fighting reached a crescendo, and finally, the japs broke, they turned and fled back toward the jungle, taking heavy fire the whole way. When the dust cleared, I was awarded a marginal victory. It was just another night on the Pacific front. So, what I'm saying is that Pacific Front offered plenty of great gaming moments just like the other two in the series, and i think the same could be said of a combat mission venture into pacific territory. Mailer

Not necessarily. Just like in the other CM games, the naval stuff, etc. questions are already resolved when the scenerio starts. When you play a scenerio in beyond overlord, the air supperiority question has been resolved when the mission begins, and the availability of air support (or lack) is reflected in the scenerio. Same with supply, CM doesn't model the big picture, or the strategic aspects. The CM game is zoomed in tight, that you really do not have to model naval engagements, etc. AT ALL. CM is about you and your company or battallion of boys fighting on the ground, you don't have to factor in the naval war any more than you have to factor in the B-17 bombing campaign in europe. Now, if you still don't like the Pacific because its just not your scene, well, I understand as these things can only be determined by personal preference, but I think you must agree that the theater is at least quite doable and doesn't require ANY modeling of aircraft carriers, battleships, etc. Its like this--Guadalcanal--any scenerios that take place in Gaudalcanal AFTER the US won Naval Supperiority in the area might give US forces more Naval Barage Forward Observers. It might give US forces more Air Support during the combat phase. It would give Japanese forces NONE of these things. And that my friend, is how you model the island hopping of and naval engagements of the pacific in CM. Check out this very same thread in the Barbarossa to Berlin Forum. A lot of people have put in their opinions there, and I think you will find some interested reading both for and against a CM version in the Pacific theater. Thanks for your reply, Mailer

answer to your post is yes and no, the crates represent all the various types of cover you find in a warehouse, but no, you don't have to actually position your men behind it. It is assumed that there is that sort of cover all over the interior, and that your boys are smart enough to get behind it. Also, I imagine, though I can't varify, that when you are in a regular house or building, it takes into account that there are rooms, doorways, and hallways and adjusts cover accordingly. Thats why sometimes when fighting in a building, you might be standing face to face with the enemy, firing tommy guns right in each others faces and yet no one dies. Its because what is actually happening is that youve got men leaning out of doorways and shooting down halls and basically having an all out firefight in the cramp confines of a building interior. Remeber, all though every single man in a squad is modeled, they are not all necessary standing in that three man clump. If you have a squad taking cover behind a building, you can imagine that maybe one man is leaning around the corner, while another is looking in the window, while a couple more are standing with their backs to the wall. Figure that your squad is actually taking up a little more space than is visually represented.

These are wonderful replies. Some of you are VERY knowledgable. Yes, many of the islands are too big for CM, but it is handled just like the others in CM series, you never played the whole Operation Cobra, you played various engagements within. Most of the reviews I have read with the boys at Battlefront said they didn't feel the engine was equiped, but maybe with a lot of response for the community, they can be convinced it is right for the cm mission. I mean, if the customers are there, why not make it. And I agree with one of the posts above, in that, I'm not looking to bust the Battlefront boys chops either, if they don't want to do a Pacific Theater, then whatever they are doing instead will be just as good and will get my purchasing dollars. In fact, I'm a huge fan of another type of wargaming that is HUGELY neglected, and that is MODERN WARFARE. Damn it, it's hard to find wargames that cover modern warfare. I am aware of TacOps, but its not available in stores--and its pretty hard to sneakily purchase a game on the credit card without the wife noticing--hehe. Just kidding about that, I intend to buy Tacops as soon as I have some extra cash handy. Kyushu--of course you're right, I actually knew that, but I just phrased it wrong cause it was late at night when I wrote it. Luzon--Thanks for filling me in, wasn't certain exactly what Luzon was. I think that many of the latest responses did a bettter job at selling the idea than I did, I mean, damn, some of those situations described above have my mouth watering. point is, I think the fan base if probably there, and i pledge my purchasing dollars to a Battlefront effort in the Pacific, but whatever Battlefront does, I support their excellent, tireless work. Thanks for all the great replies, Gentlemen, Mailer

Wicky-- Looking forward to giving it a shot.

I make no claims at being able to spell. regarding plain dull-- Yes, I mentioned before that there certainly would be a shortage of tank engagements. As I favor infantry it is not as big an issue with me, I think that several players will fall on either side of the fence with this one. But keep in mind that these battles weren't totally without tanks and vehicles. There were quite a number of tanks involved in a lot of the combat, more on the US side, but some on the japanese side as well. And there were QUITE a number of other support vehicles and AFVs used. I think that the bulk of engagments would be heavy on infantry, with maybe a Sherman or Two, a few trucks, a jeep, and maybe a couple of Greyhounds.--which is about my favorite force mix, basically, lots of infantry with some armored support. Sure, you would lose the armor heavy engagments of the East front, but thats why its a different game and a differnet theater, each theater should FEEL fundementally different. But I do understand--if your primary interest is heavy tank engagments, then the Pacific Front would most likely dissappoint. Also, about Talonsoft, I didn't think that Rising Sun was bad at all--in fact, I thought it was the best of the three, even though the Pacific isn't my favorite theater. My favorite theater is probably Russia, although I'm forced to admit, that it is a close contest with the overexposed, yet endlessly fun West front. My least favorite front is probably Africa, but I enjoy the crap out of it too. Actually, I take that back--My least favorite is probably Sicily-Italy--But I am looking forward to learning more about it when CMAK comes out--who knows, maybe Italy will become my favorite front.

Sergei-- Germany, soviets invade poland--isn't this modeled in CMBB? Germany invades Denmark Norway--yeah, forgot about this. Don't know much about it. Is it reasonable material for Combat Mission? Germany invades France, Belgium...Screw it, the Blitzkrieg. Yes, you are right, I would love to see this portion of the war modeled. Once again, I got to give props to Talonsofts West Front, because they do model the invasion of Poland and France. I would enjoy using renaults and Chars and such. Good idea. Germany invades Yugoslavia and Greece--I think that CMAK will cover the Germany invasion of Greece. Not sure about that. Seems like I read that there would be some ITaly vs. France action too, not sure. Can't you model Germany invading Yugo in CMBB? Seems like they offer Yugo units, not sure though. I know they have Hungarian and Romanian.

With my limited knowledge of pacific front, I'll try to highlight some of the engagments that I feel would fit Combat mission like a glove. Guadalcanal--this campaign had a ton of infantry vs. infantry fighting. First the Americans took the island, giving them bombing ability all over the South Pacific, but the Japs managed to sneak a ton of infantry on the island at night and there was HORRENDOUS night and day fighting. Tons of Naval and Air bombardment from both sides and close range, tommy gun in the face fighting. THIN RED LINE--the movie, is set during the Guadalcanal campaign, although it only covers a small portion of the fighting. Okinawa--a complex and savage engagment on the island of Okinawa--all branches of the military were involved and the fighting was fierce. Phillipines--Japanese invasion was pretty much a straight inf vs. inf affair. After they took it, Macarthur said, "I will Return" and he did. More savage fighting in villages, jungle, etc. More Tommy gun right in your face fighting. Luzon--I think Luzon is a large island off of the phillipines, and more infantry combat occured here. The Burmese trail--Combat engineers had to build this logistics wonder through India and they were duking it out with japanese infantry the entire time. Rangoon--Savage infantry fighting in China. Think about the terrain and the dense ancient cities. Need I say more? Iwo Jima--You know, the statue with the nine soldiers raising the American flag on the hard won mountain top. Tell me you dont want to fight your way up that mountain and I'll drop the subject right now. This one moment alone is worth Battlefront recreating the front. Not to mention the fighting was fierce. Sure we bombed the crap out of it, but those japs just dug in Deep and we had to root them out of every little nook and cranny of this volcanic island. Tarawa--dont know much about this one, but I think it was the one with the coral reef landing and it give the omaha beech landing a run for its money. Kyushu--this large island right off the coast of Japan was going to be the first step in operation Olympic--the ground invasion of Japan! It was a large, dense, mountainous island and it was going to be HELL taking it back. Fortunatly for US G.I.s, the atomic bomb came along and ended the war before this operation began. No reason hypothetical invasion can't be simulated. Operation Olympic--Invade Japan! it didn't happen, but it nearly did! ONce again, great for Combat Mission. I know I wouldn't want to land on that beech. There are many more islands, and each island had dozens of different engagments that could be moddeled. There are more than enough real and even a few hypothetical situations to include. Remember, that many of these islands would start out as lush, tropical paradises, but in the end, they were blackened, charred, smoking rubbleheaps--all the trees were litte toothpicks--and fighting amongst the ruin and desolation were G.I.s and Japs! Like Flamethrowers? They burned everything in sight with flamethowers. Like Artillary? Both sides used a ton. Urban, village, rural, jungle settings. Exotic setting in India, China, Phillipines, South Pacific, etc. Yes, much of the Pacific was fought on the ocean in boats and planes, but much of Europe was foought in the air as well, that doesn't mean there wasn't a ton of ground combat. No sir, the south pacific was not short of ground combat. I will say that it might be a little short on armor engagments, but this only adds to the challenge as you try to bring your armored vehicles and even Trucks and jeeps to bear in this dense, unfriendly terrain. Its a logistics nightmare, its savage face to face combat, and its terror in the night with hammering artillary and chattering machine guns. BONZAI! the Japanese cry as they charge over the ridge in a relentless wave of death. You keep mowing them down with the fifty cal but they just keep coming. They dont care if they live or die. EDIT__ Forgive me if a few of my facts are off, as I am not quite as knowledgable about the Pacific as I am other theaters and even time periods. But the above should give you a pretty good taste of what the theater holds. Also, I have this great article about the fight for Hendersons field, and if I find it, I will quote some of it here on the forum so you can read it and imagine the fun you would be having if you were playing it on Combat Missino EDIT AGAIN-- sorry, last one, I promise-- Like variety of troop types? Some nationalities include-- Japan Communist China The other China (dont remember what its called, china split at this time) USA, England, Australia, India, the fighting Phillipinos! Even Russia if Combat Mission felt like exploring a few hypotheticals. I think there were even some more little wierd nations involved as well. Thanks, Mailer [ October 31, 2003, 05:50 AM: Message edited by: Mailer ]

Historicaly, Officers just generally perform better overall than enlisted men. That's not so say in every case, but on average. Mailer

Just thought I would add, that both the Operations that came with the CD, AND the scenerio that came with the Stalingrad Pack from boots and tracks are both FREAKING HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I imagine the operation is probably larger, but must confess that I haven't played either. When I saw the sheer size of these scenerios I was so intimidated that I didn't even try to play them. I do intend to play them someday, though, but my computer is a little older and I dont know how it will run. i have a pentium 3 450mz. DONT LAUGH! because even though the thing is so low powered, you'd be surprised at what it can run. Dude--it can run nearly anything! I don't know why, old as it is, but I can run Battlefield 1942 (i did upgrade graphics card) I can run Grand theft auto, I can run pretty much anything with it. So I know the scenerio will play, but I bet the CALCULATION PHASE will take about 100 years per turn. Oh well, won't know till I try.

Yes, Japanese. Although I must admit I have a bias toward playing American forces in these games, I'm dying to get my chops on some Japanese infantry! These guys just don't quit. EDIT-- When the Japanese came back to Guadalcanal, the Americans were REALLY dug in [ October 31, 2003, 02:43 AM: Message edited by: Mailer ]