Battle for Atlantic Questions

[Edwin P.]

1. Will the AI sometimes, not always, launch a battle for the Atlantic? In Sc1 it never did.

2. Do the players find the that a Battle for the Atlantic can be a viable strategy?

3. Can subs really sneak past the Allied Naval and Air units to reach the Atlantic? With the enlarged size of the Allied Naval Fleets, now including Canadian fleets, it appears that they could form a blockade that would stop any Axis naval movements.

4. Does the Axis need to take Norway for a viable Battle for the Atlantic? Does taking Norway allow the Allies to prevent a Battle for the Atlantic?

5. Finally, as was suggested earlier in another post, can subs sneak past Gibraltar?

[ February 28, 2006, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Good questions...questions which need answering!

Sneak thru the Channel and/or past Scapa Flow too...

[Mr.Dozer]

what about a starvation rule. So say the subs do 900mmp of sinking damage that UK surrenders due to lack of supply?

What about increased sub sinking like there was a cap of 40mmp in sc1

[Edwin P.]

Can you write an AI script such that it will send subs, and only subs, to the Atlantic and will not always take the same route?

In Sc1 the AI controlled subs always followed the same route to a destination and thus were easily found and sunk.

As for increased sub sinking, from my reading of prior posts the maximum limit will depend to a great extent how much the USA is sending to the UK and how much the UK is sending to the USSR.

[Blashy]

Yep, you can counter sub raiding by simply eliminating mpp tranfers from USA to UK and UK to USSR.

There is still Canada and if you still have Egypt is Allies that is another route.

[Edwin P.]

If the AI is losing lots of MPPs to sub raiding that will it consider reducing MPP transfers until control of the Atlantic is regained?

[ March 01, 2006, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Hubert Cater]

Hey Edwin,

I'm still making some tweaks to the AI sub raiding and counter raiding routines so nothing final to report just yet.

[Edwin P.]

Many thanks for the update HC. Its good to know that there will be sub raiding and counter raiding routines in the AI library.

[Edwin P.]

Comment: If the AI looked at the number of enemy ships in the report screen, it would have a good idea as to whether 1) the Axis is building ships for a battle for the Atlantic or 2) if the Allied Navy is weak and thus a battle for the Atlantic would be winnable.

Yet to do this one must account for the number of transports that a player has at sea, unless the reports screen has been changed to show only combat naval units at sea.

Comment: I wonder if the AI will track how many times his human opponent wages a serious battle for the Atlantic or builds a serious defense against it.

[ March 01, 2006, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Night]

the Battle of the Atlantic should and must play a role in SC2. Any other way would not do justice to the men on both sides who sit in watery graves as we talk about this.

[Blashy]

Originally posted by Edwin P.:

Comment: If the AI looked at the number of enemy ships in the report screen, it would have a good idea as to whether 1) the Axis is building ships for a battle for the Atlantic or 2) if the Allied Navy is weak and thus a battle for the Atlantic would be winnable.

Yet to do this one must account for the number of transports that a player has at sea, unless the reports screen has been changed to show only combat naval units at sea.

Comment: I wonder if the AI will track how many times his human opponent wages a serious battle for the Atlantic or builds a serious defense against it.

The report screen does not tell total amount of troops of your enemy, so you would not know if he is buidling anything. That would be unrealistic.

It tells the total of what you have seen and that is still on the board.

[Blashy]

Originally posted by Night:

the Battle of the Atlantic should and must play a role in SC2. Any other way would not do justice to the men on both sides who sit in watery graves as we talk about this.

You just need to make the case that Winston Churchil himself stated the sub raiding was the number one threat to the UK and they were almost forced out of the war.

[Ike99]

Winston Churchil himself stated the sub raiding was the number one threat to the UK and they were almost forced out of the war.

Yes Churchill said this but Churchill was wrong. The UK was never even close to being forced out of the war by U-boats.

Here is a link to 2 really good books on the subject. I own both sets, a bit of a dry read but nonetheless entertaining and informative.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0394588398/103-6537656-8963007?v=glance&n=283155

You can also do some searching for British import statistical charts as the war went along and find good info also.

England was never close to being forced out of the war. I'm a German U-boat fan too and love reading about Prien & U-47 and all those guys, but in truth they never even came close to cutting England off.

[Edwin P.]

Originally posted by Blashy:

The report screen does not tell total amount of troops of your enemy, so you would not know if he is buidling anything. That would be unrealistic.

It tells the total of what you have seen and that is still on the board.

Interesting change, for in Sc1 it told you how many units the enemy had, and I often used it to plan my strategy. If the enemies number of naval ships suddenly increased I knew that he was planning an invasion, but not exactly where; though it was almost always around Brest, France.

As for the U-boat war, from my readings the key issue was that Germany never built close to the number of U-Boats that Admiral Doenitz felt was needed for victory, about 10x what they started with. If they had done that and stopped their intelligence leak then the UK would have experienced some pretty cold winters.

[ March 02, 2006, 04:13 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[pzgndr]

Units in the production queue (P/Q) don't show up in the reports. Also, the reports don't show the types of units. You can load a bunch of corps on transports and sit in port just to inflate your reports number. THAT would be pretty gamey. So we should be careful about what the AI is programmed to react to, as we all should be careful about the bits of intel we receive during a game.

[Mr.Dozer]

what about reusable transports?

[Blashy]

Transports function the same way as SC1. So no reusalbe transports.