Reactivation of USSR as Allied major power

[vveedd]

What do you think about this suggestion: When USSR has surrendered it did not surrender completely, it only sighed peace agreement so Axis must left in USSR significant numbers of units for garrison purposes. If Axis failed to do that, USSR will reactivate as Allied major.

I know that, practically, game is over for Allies after USSR surrender but this will give at least small chance for Allies and players will keep playing.

From historical point of view this will be much more correct because it is absolutely sure thing that USSR people will never surrender especially because of reason that Hitler wanted to exterminate them. Also with this we will avoid stupid game situation after USSR fall that all this territory is without any Axis units. This is totally unrealistic and stupid.

Sorry if someone has suggested this already.

[arado234]

If germany doesnt leave units in russia patisans start popping up on any cities which will cost germany anyway.I dont know if russia should be allowed back in the game because in order for germany to beat russia germany has to destroy russias ability to fight,so how would russia start building the weapons needed to fight germany again?Also you are in command not hitler so it could be implied that you wont treat the russian as subhumans so they wont rise up against you.I mentioned this before when i suggested a way to have it that when germany first attacks russia there would be a chance(i dont know how you would incorporate this into the game)that the russians would go into a revolution and be neutral from the game.This probably would have happened in 1941 if hitler and the rest of his tyrants had brains to see it.Wouldnt be a very fun game for the allies if the russians did this.Like i said hitler and stalin are not in power we are.Although i do agree with you that if its possible(like in third reich)germany must keep some axis units in russia no matter what.

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by vveedd:

What do you think about this suggestion: When USSR has surrendered it did not surrender completely, it only sighed peace agreement so Axis must left in USSR significant numbers of units for garrison purposes. If Axis failed to do that, USSR will reactivate as Allied major.

I'd support the idea, if they higher the soft building limits when you take Russia (and a few other countries like France, Turkey, Poland, Iraq, Egypt,...).

One of the sources for German troops in WWII where so-called collaborateurs, people that helped the Germans after they conquered their country. the game should reflect this by letting you buy more units when you conquer big countries.

Even from my little country (Belgium), there were alot of people that voloteered to fight together with the Germans, after the occupation of Belgium.

[arado234]

Just think how many people would have joined the nazi cause if hitler hadnot been such a tyrant.

[Hyazinth von Strachwitz]

I like the idea of garrison troops in Russia... not just a few finnish and hungarian Corps, I think of german front line troops... but how is the AI supposed to recognize that, i.e. to see the difference between useless auxiliary corps and high quality german troops?

Basically I think it makes much sense if Germany has to leave a large garrison force deep in Russia..

[Colin I]

High quality troops cost more. If you ignore discounts (production technologies, rebuys) then most things that increase troop quality (strength, unit type, technology, elite reinforcements) then you could demand both a minimum number of units AND a minimum investment.

[Edwin P.]

Idea: Use a post surrender partisan script (for games vs the Allied AI) where partisans can appear in more locations and in greater frequency.

The problem is that although partisans may appear that no new Russian capital is created for the Axis player will surely garrison the 3 Russian capital cities.

What if when partsans control X number cities then AI automatically picks one as the new Russian capital.

[Lars]

Looks like small beer to me. After Russia goes the major units come out and they're enough to crush UK as is. Any partisans you have popping up, even if in massive numbers, will not change the outcome.

Out of supply partisans against Level 3 Corps equals a waste of my time, no matter which side I'm playing.

You'd be better off removing Russian surrender altogether if that's the effect you want to create. Have Lend Lease supply come in on the Trans-Siberian RR (if Murmansk is gone). And make it hurt for the US to do it (having to reflag vessels).

[SeaMonkey]

Have to agree with Lars, USSR gone = game over.

Now on the otherhand, I see the point of continuing as Allies with at least a chance of retribution.....to keep the game going.

The only realistic element that I can foresee to continue is the variable of the USA.

Perhaps if USSR surrenders, USA gets a boost, research chits, MPPs, naval assets from Pacific, force pool increases, etc. The question is how much to be competitive, but not to completely negate the Axis advantage?

[Edwin P.]

USA had the largest production base during WWII. With the fight against Japan you are only seeing part of it reflected in SC2.

A simple solution is to increase the size of the USA in the game and activate additional American cities and resources(need RESOURCE script to allow activation when foreign city if captured, not just own city) once Russia falls to the Axis or Japan surrenders.

The you would truely see a battle for the Atlantic as America tries to liberate Europe and the Axis try to invade North America.

[Lars]

Hmm, still think it would be easier to just remove USSR surrender. But perhaps give a mmp bonus to Axis for taking Leningrad/Moscow/Stalingrad. Then you'd get in to the more historical German plan to defend the Volga-Archangel Line. Heck, they didn't think the Russians would surrender either.

Germans would now need to blow the mpps on a Engineer to free up forces for the West, Russians are going to need time to rebuild.

To keep the Russians from just gamily retreating with everything and coming back for a head-cracking later, get rid of the cheap rebuild price if they lose the main objective cities. Now both sides really have something to fight for.

[SeaMonkey]

Actually I would like to see a phased armistice resolution available for the USSR.

Once Leningrad and Moscow are taken before 1942, an option for cease fire becomes available to the USSR and the DoW script is reactivated.

Conditions would be currently occupied Russian resources would go to 80% for German MPP allocation and any violation would have a consequence of severe MPP or ? loss for either side in a certain timeframe.

Russian forces would be reduced and a condition similar to Vichy would evolve for continued USSR participation.

Perhaps after a certain amount of time passes, say 18 turns, diplomatic maneuvering could be used by Axis or Allies to reactivate USSR to the appropriate side.

Nahhh.... sounds too complicated