Staging navel units

[waltero]

Will it be possible to SR (operate) Fleets?

And was wondering if some of the minors are going to have HQ's?

[waltero]

Or will it take the normal three months to move a fleet across the Atlantic to the med?

[Hubert Cater]

Interesting idea and although not officially planned... you never know

[Sadeeq]

In SC1 There was only a limited type of ships available, will DD, CL & BC be avaiable in SC2

[pzgndr]

Same types of ships. But... with customization when you build or upgrade units, you can create your own differences.

[Avatar]

Actually, that sounds like a potentially great idea! Operating chips eh? Yeah, I'd support it for sure. Shouldn't be hard to implement. Since it would be quite expensive anyhow to operate them (60-70mpp a ship), it most likely won't be too abused, and could provide an interesting scenario! You guys should really playtest it! Maybe operating ships should be one at a time, only to the 'port' square, not every adjacent square. That way, there could be super-suprise encounters, but a slow and sure build up of a fleet in a far off place.... what does everyone else think?

[Korut Zelva]

errrrr so the germans could relocate their fleet from the baltic to the atlantic without risking interdiction by planes or ships

I don't like it

[Avatar]

I know exactly what you mean, but it's a small drawback. Besides, the germans moved big ships a few times around the UK from Kiel->Brest or vice versa. Besides, it's only 1 ship/turn, so yes, you could bring the whole of 3-4 ships in 3-4 turns, but you have to first pay the costs, and then again if you want to go back to Kiel. That's expensive, but at least it's an option. You could also move them and take the associated risks with reduced costs.

The big point is that Alexandria harbour or Malta or Gibraltar can be (slowly) reinforced with no risks (other than the costs). To operand, a ship would have to be in port, and then could operand to another port. So, yeah you could move your whole fleet around in a few turns, that's a few months in gameplay time, which is completely realistic anyways.

The Italians probably benefit the least, but could still use it to transfer ships from west med->east, or Atlantic, or Kiel if it wanted, but only one a turn, and possible with a rule that there must be an un-zoc'd path from port->port. Comments?

[Desert Dave]

Not a good idea, IMHO. :eek:

Why?

With SC1 & 2 you do not have sea-zones or area movement.

You have tile-by-tile maneuvering of the naval ships.

Should any particular capital ship - all with very DIFFERENT speeds and range, be allowed to move anywhere on the board - in a ONE month turn?

What about bad weather, when the waves are 8 feet and climbing to crash the superstructure?

Should RN be able to send a slow and carefully moving Carrier (... due to protective fleet formation) from Liverpool to Suez in one month time frame?

How about transports and amphibious ships?

What about the "movement arrows" around the Horn?

Are they to be considered "special ports?"

How about Russia - move a Cruiser from Leningrad

To Iceland in one month? To avoid combat with

The vastly superior Kriegsmarine?

Wouldn't this favor the Allies mostly?

Let's say it is 1942 and the GErmans have established Wolfpacks that roam all over

The Atlantic, east to west, north to south.

Should the Allies be able to simply avoid them

COMPLETELY by some handy-dandy "op move?" :confused:

Or, should they be required to run the gauntlet

with ASW Cruisers out front for in depth charging protection?

Should the GErmans be allowed to launch a ship

In Kiel, and then simply "op-move" it to Brest?

Is that how the Bismark & Prinz Eugen

Were able to "break out" historically?

Or, did they have to follow the fog up along

Norwegian Coast and then out around Scapa?

WHY should any game-player be allowed to PRESTO!

As if by an unearned magic, just

Place Capital ships anywhere on board?

What if there is a "global scenario?" Can USA send BB New York from San Diego, or even Brooklyn Navy Yard... all the way to Brisbane, Australia, in ONE month time?

WHY shouldn't the master-strategist have to PLAN AHEAD and get those Allied ships in position to shore bombard

Casablanca in prep for landings

In North Afrika.

**(... though, they better NOT! hit Rick's Place! and damage Sam's piano! Lose that, I tell you, and you've lost it all... that "fight for love and glory!" :cool: )

Perhaps, all things considered, just TOO many complicated coding requirements to make all of this work smoothly.

TOO many "special rules" required to "adjust" the game to mimic "real life" ship capabilities and certain situations.

If you had an area-to-area ship movement (... or, front to front, as with A3R) then you might allow

long-distance "strategic moves."

Yet, even in A3R you had to use TWO strat moves to go from Portsmouth to Gibraltar to Alexandria, true?

Shouldn't there be additional COST to go those Xtra long distances?

Well, cinch it up, and be an actual Admiral and plan ahead, get the flotilla of ships you

Require... in the right place,

At the right time.

It's part of the chess-like challenge.

Why make everything - PRESTO! easy?

__________________________

Now, having given my own personal opinion, perhaps Hubert will yet decide to implement this feature in some manner.

IF so - OK by me! He's the one and only game designer.

And so, as with all else... soon enough

We shall see, eh?

[ March 18, 2005, 06:47 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

[Sadeeq]

In SC2,I am hoping for a refinment on the carriers. Will there be two health/strength values?ie 1 for the carrier itself and 1 for the air wing. I bring this up as today playing SC1, a few mistakes attacking targets on land and my carrier strength was 1 with no direct conflit itself,at which point a 3 strength sub snuck up and sank it!!Understandly, this an expensie toy and rather annoying.

[Exel]

Ehm. Strategic redeployment is there to simulate units moving on railroads. Why should ships be able to do the same? Ground units don't have to march everywhere, they can use trains, but I don't see how ships could move across an ocean by any other means than sailing over it. Afaik they didn't have aircraft that could carry battleships in WWII.

[waltero]

Being that it should not take three months to travel from one sea zone to another?

[vveedd]

Originally posted by Exel:

Ehm. Strategic redeployment is there to simulate units moving on railroads. Why should ships be able to do the same? Ground units don't have to march everywhere, they can use trains, but I don't see how ships could move across an ocean by any other means than sailing over it. Afaik they didn't have aircraft that could carry battleships in WWII.

I agree. Strategic redeployment of naval units is not good. Actually, it is impossible.

[Wachtmeister]

Agree that operating fleets could produce some fairly unrealistic game play. If fleets could be operated, then it seems that sea tiles would have to show control by the Allies, the Axis, or be neutral,like land tiles. Subs would not change tile control. Then fleets could at least only operate between locations connected by a continuous line of controlled sea tiles.

However, Waltero does have a good point in that it would not have taken 3 or more turns (1-3 months) to move from the eastern Med to the Irish Sea, unless wind power rather than steam turbine power is assumed. At 400 miles per day (pretty conservative at ~15 knots/hr for 24 hours), a 4000 mile trip is ~ 10 days or at most 1-1.5 turns in the summer and less in the other seasons.

Since seasonal variation in game turn length will continue to change the apparent speed of fleets, a simpler solution might be to increase the speed of naval units, especially cruiser and carrier units. Also the speed of the transports sould be reduced by 30-50%. In SC1, the transports are faster than warships when the opposite should be true. In WWII only a few attack transports, former passenger liners, and converted destroyers were capable of speed close to that of cruiser/carrier task forces. Battleships varied from older units barely cabable of 20 knots to modern fast battleships that could easily keep up with the carrier task forces. Perhaps the variation in ship speed could be handled by increasing tech levels for each ship class.