Map Making

[Edwin P.]

Can one use a tracing image to make new maps in SC2?

I mean, load an image of the map you want, then place SC2 tiles on it to get a best fit, and finally remove the tracing image background.

[Retributar]

Great Concept Edwin P.!,...also, what about MAPS that we can call up or Download from Battlefront...'later on that is',...so that we can have various scale ranges of maps!...for our MODS & SCENARIO'S.

That's what i would like to see!.

[pzgndr]

The game will come with a map making tutorial. It's not rocket science, but to get the scale correct with the isometric effect of the tiles requires a little effort.

[clabinskys]

You mean something like this (?):

Well, I forgot this is hexes, but still.

[Edwin P.]

Yes. Excellent example.

[Capt Andrew]

Already got a folder full of maps of the Pacific already, eh Edwin?

[Blashy]

I have to admit that this would be the ultimate add on to the editor. I think it is one of the first things I asked about the editor myself when I started beta, .

But I can only imagine how difficult it is too implement code wise.

[clabinskys]

But I can only imagine how difficult it is too implement code wise. [/QB]

It all depends on the paint code that draws the map onto the screen. I added this to the above editor in a fairly short time ( maybe 3-5 hours ), but as you can see, it's not an isometric map, which is a very different story I believe.

In the above example you can load any image with a reasonable size ( < 500 MB ) then unlock the backgound and reposition it as you want by dragging it with the mouse.

I can't think of an easy way to do this with an isometric graphics engine, but then you never know what HC can do. Doubt that it'll ever become a priority partly because of the possible complexity of doing and most of all since this community will most certainly create great maps anyway!

[pzgndr]

I can't think of an easy way to do this with an isometric graphics engine

It's not that hard, really, just tedious. I've done a Tactics II map, world map, and recently an Advanced Third Reich map. It's fun in a way, once you get the routine down. And like I said previously, there's a tutorial to step you through the process and get you started.

The hard part of creating a custom campaign is your game design. What major and minor countries to use, order of battle, terrain and combat target values, etc. And then there are all the event and AI scripts to develop. The map making part of the exercise is the easy part.

[clabinskys]

Originally posted by pzgndr:

I was actually referring to the code that would be needed to add a backgound/trace image to an isometric rendering routine...

I'm sure the editor will be great and maps easy to make, which I will leave for other to do by the way .

[pzgndr]

Code? We don't need no stinking code!

Here's the deal, in a nutshell:

1) Take your map image and reduce the height to 50% for the isometric effect.

2) Make some size adjustments to make the map scale appropriate to the tile overlay, which will be included with the game. You'll have to apply a few math skills here.

3) Copy and paste the tile overlay on top of the map image as a transparency. This can all be done using MS Paint. Larger maps will require multiple pastings of the overlay, but you just line up the new overlay with previously pasted one and fill up the map. Easy. When you're done, save your map image.

4) Open up the SC2 Editor in windowed mode and move things around so you can see your map image and your SC2 map and start filling in tile. Really, that's all there is to it. No secret code or anything required. Easy.

There's a little more to it, but hopefully you get the idea. A map making tutorial and tile overlay will be included with the game. Believe me, you'll be able to start making maps in no time at all.

[clabinskys]

Originally posted by pzgndr:

Code? We don't need no stinking code!

LOL

See, I'm a programmer by profession and a wargamer by heart, unless it's code I can't do it

Even if I could import the image to the editor and have it as a background, I couldn't do it - I'm a programmer, not an artist

Thanks for the tip though...I'm sure you'll have tons of apprentices by the time the game ships.

[pzgndr]

I used to be disabled with FORTRAN and ADA, but managed to work my way through it with spiritual guidance and group therapy. Tell ya what clabinskys, when you make a map in SC2 then I'll consider the tutorial a success.

[SeaMonkey]

Believe me, after making the map of SPI's "Wacht Am Rhein" using the TOAW editor, anything will be a piece of cake.

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by pzgndr:

The hard part of creating a custom campaign is your game design. What major and minor countries to use, order of battle, terrain and combat target values, etc. And then there are all the event and AI scripts to develop.

Yes, IMHO the AI scripts are the hard part. The map is the easiest part. Next comes the countries, order of battle, values,... But it will be the AI-scripts that will make or break a good map, since most people (and I don't mean here on the forum, but people in general) will play against the AI, so those scripts will be very important.

[Retributar]

I too TaoJah 'primarily' if not 'exclusively' play against the 'AI'...so for me, 'Scripting' by the creator of the game is of 'Paramount Importance'!.

[fantomas]

One question, please : Will the scenario/map editor include a script editor, like a game as "Rise of Nations" ? Or will the scenario/map editor include "only" a list of complentary events (I will prefer that : more easy to work with in modding).

[pzgndr]

All the scripts are editable text files. You can access the scripts from the SC2 Editor, but it just opens your default text editor and you work from there. Then you save and reload the scripts.

[fantomas]

But what is the used language for these scripts ?

Based on triggers and conditions like : if { } etc... ?

Or "special simply Strategic command 2 language" ? (it will be more easy)

Do the game include HELP SECTION for realizing scripts ?

[pzgndr]

It is not code language, just text. Each event and AI script has its own structure, which is clearly defined and there are notes provided.

You just copy the structure and edit as desired to create a new event. Each script file can have multiple events, which you can then toggle on/off when you start a new game. This will make more sense when you see it. Modders do not need to be code programming wizards.

[fantomas]

Wouaaaaa ! Hubert is a little big great man : I want him for President !!

I had to work very hard and hard and hard in the past time for learning to create scripts of "Rise of Nations" with triggers, and "barbarian" instructions like if, while,do, for, etc... (bases of C language and I am without studies about that) and I was afraid to start again that sort of thing.

So, with simply text, it will be easy.

Vive Hubert !

[fantomas]

Possible to send me or post here a .txt file with a (little) script ? I am curious to see the logical structure of one...

[pzgndr]

Hubert posted this a couple weeks ago:

For example, here is a sample script of an Allied invasion of France:

; UK prepares to attack France:

{

#NAME= UK Build Up Amphibious - Brest (D-Day)

#POPUP=

#FLAG= 1

#TYPE= 1

#COUNTRY_ID= 1

#TRIGGER= 100

#LEVEL= 0

#PLAN_ID= 2

#SIZE= 4

#LENGTH= 1

; Brest

#GOAL_POSITION= 59,18

#DATE= 1943/01/01

#STEAL= 0

; Set friendly positions:

; 1st Line - London

#FRIENDLY_POSITION= 64,15

; Set variable conditions:

; 1st Line - UK politically aligned with Allies and not surrendered

#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 1 [2] [100] [0]

; Set tactical conditions:

; 1st Line - London not tactically threatened (dummy condition)

#TACTICAL_CONDITION= 64,15 [3]

; Set activate position:

; 1st Line - 20 Allied units in England

#ACTIVATE_POSITION= 64,15 [7,7] [20,20] [2]

; Set dummy cancel position (single neutral unit at position 0,0). This is not possible as no

; unit can occupy tile 0,0 so event will not be cancelled due to #CONDITION_POSITION

#CANCEL_POSITION= 0,0 [0,0] [1,1] [0]

}

The semi-colons are comment lines. Each script begins and ends with brackets { }. The #NAME= lines are variable names and all you do is fill in the stuff after the =. Pretty easy.

For event scripts where multiple map positions are involved, there's a new F9 feature in the editor to copy map locations to a file where you can then paste them into the script. Hubert has worked very hard to make just about everything editable and easy to use. But, the hard part will be for YOU to figure out what YOU want to do.

[fantomas]

Thanks

I see what is the system. Based on my experience with the script editor of the game "Rise of Nations ", who used Triggers, functions and elementary instructions of "programmation language" (If, do, while, switch, for, break, etc...), I think it will be more easy to work in SC2.

But " more easy" means here "a little more easy" , and not faster : these sort of systems are sophisticated and take lot of time : not the majority of players would have the time to create scripts.

In "Rise of Nations", only a few part of players did create scenarios with script, because of the complexity of the system.

I hope other way for SC2 and I hope it will not necessary to create a line of script for each unit on each location on map.

[Moon]

But " more easy" means here "a little more easy" , and not faster : these sort of systems are sophisticated and take lot of time : not the majority of players would have the time to create scripts.

fantomas, from my experience after having made a couple of maps for SC2, the main time required when editing AI scripts is for testing to ensure that the scenario plays out the way you envisioned it. Implementing the script itself is a breeze, and doesn't take any longer than it took me to write this post. Especially because the editor comes with a bunch of very useful templates and examples.

Martin