Should this really be right?

[xwormwood]

You can attack the harbor:

but you can't use it as harbor

Aye or nay, but please: not both!

And this harbor you can attack as well with land troops:

Simply absurd! There are many other more (Gibraltar etc.)

Next thing: if this little country (or better: these little countries) get attacked by the allies, no national army appears (but we see a danish 3-strenght corps) .

If the same country was consumed by the USSR, partisan units appear within the city or the forrest en masse in a russian-german conflict (if behind the german frontline & not secured by axis guards). This simply doesn't fit.

At least a 1-strength corps should appear. After all the germans got lots of volunteers from these countries, even without an official war declaration from the allies in 1939.

Another sea/lake-coastlines & zone of control issue: here the german player moves forward

and through his zone of control the squares around his units change sides towards the axis.

But even though his zone of control is mighty enough to change the ownership of the squares,

it can't prevent birth of partisans (sorry for the scenario change, but i think you will understand my point):

The finns north of the lake couldn't prevent the russian partisans.

Is there a zone of control or not? This picture and the prior say yes and no, even though there should only be one possible answer.

And at last (sorry, no pictures this time, but i think everyone have seen it more than enough):

The unoccupied squares around a city are changing every turn automaticly toward the city-owning side. The question is: why?

Rising of the dead?

Workers coming home after a long day in the city-factories?

And while i'm complaining:

troop placement should be forbidden into the zone of control of an enemy.

In SC2 you can place your units next to the enemy as long as you still occupy the city. Why? because the city changed the squares for you...

[ August 27, 2006, 07:05 AM: Message edited by: xwormwood ]

[Retributar]

Message Posting Malfunction

[Retributar]

xwormwood ...you make 100% sense!, let's hope that our Guru's can offer 'logical explanations' or 'solutions' to these gragarious finding's.

What you have illustrated is a game manifesting a hideous form of 'A Mass Of Conflicting Impulses'!.

[xwormwood]

Yes, and thank you, Retributar.

Hopefully there will be a real good explanation or a change through patch 1.04

[John DiFool the 2nd]

I had a port constantly change sides from turn to

turn when I and the enemy each had one unit adjacent

to the port (the long side not the diagonal) while we

whaled away at each other. Since it was in my home

country on my turn his supply would be 0, but on his

turn it would be 5.

My biggest beef is how squares will constantly "flip"

like this, often allowing a surrounded enemy to

reinforce (usually through the diagonal) or even

operate out. In real life that supply line would

have been severely compromised if not obliterated.

IMHO the unit(s) with the higher supply level

"controls" the square, so we don't see this silly

flipping over and over again, tho I think given

how Hubert's algorithms work there's a "chicken

and egg" problem there. I'd simply disallow any

reinforcement, op moves, or new builds in enemy

ZOC, just as many other games do (don't).

[Retributar]

John DiFool the 2nd !... My biggest beef is how squares will constantly "flip"

like this, often allowing a surrounded enemy to

reinforce (usually through the diagonal) or even

operate out. In real life that supply line would

have been severely compromised if not obliterated.

_I'd simply disallow any reinforcement, op moves, or new builds in enemy ZOC, just as many other games do (don't).

'Amen to that!!!'.

Yes, i too have experienced where the enemy is 'initially' totally cut-off from supply and on the following turn bring's up a corps unit to re-establish supply through a 'diagonal', then is instantly able to saturate his immediate city area will all the armies he can bring in to fill every available unoccupied space!.

[TaoJah]

Yes, that's all pretty annoying that you can't use the ports that you can attack.

Just like it is annoying that the northern UK port doesn't change ownership when you move a unit next to it when there is a ship in it and then the ship moves out. You got to move a unit next to it when it's empty, wich is not as easy with all the mountains there...

I do know that the last screenshot is know : the Zone Of Control does not go over that little lake in Russia, it's the only place where it happens I think.

By the way, how do you put pictures in your post ?

[BioWizard]

@ xwormwood, what you point out appears strange but some can be explained.

-In your first example, the danish corps can attack because of its artillery units incorporated within the corps unit, but the whole german corps is too far from it to be able to use it!

-Attacking Ireland's and Gibraltar's port from across a sea makes no sense. Don't think WW2 artillery shells could reach it...

-For your third example, the way HC handled the non-cooperation of Riga toward the russians is that city, unlike what you say, never generates partisans, just like 4 other russian cities. I already mentionned them in the thread: Partisan's appearance prevention 101.

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=001961

which i'll bump.

-Your last example, i totally agree with. If you don't have zone of control over something, it should not switch color! For game purposes, to prevent partisans from appearing, make sure to put a unit on (104,9)...

[ August 27, 2006, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: BioWizard ]

[Bromley]

Fixed link:

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=001961

[xwormwood]

Originally posted by BioWizard:

-In your first example, the danish corps can attack because of its artillery units incorporated within the corps unit, but the whole german corps is too far from it to be able to use it!

Sounds like an explanation, but is it really one?

We are talking about firing across the ocean, not a river. Probably without any clear sight for the attacker. Real harbors aren't THAT big like they are displayed in the game map.

In SC Armies are much more effective in sinking anchored ships than a massive carrier strike (Pearl Harbor!).

The minute army shells are falling into a harbor basin all fleets starts to leave this harbor as soon as possible. No chance to do this when the sky is filled with several dozen planes, subs within or navy task forces in front of the harbor. Think about it.

Maybe harbors should point into a specific direction (a land connection or bridge painted on the game map) from which they could only (and exclusive) be used as harbors or being attacked?

Originally posted by BioWizard:

For your third example, the way HC handled the non-cooperation of Riga toward the russians is that city, unlike what you say, never generates partisans, just like 4 other russian cities. I already mentionned them in the thread: Partisan's appearance prevention 101.

Sorry about Riga (i stand corrected).

But this sea and lake zone of control still doesn't work properly. If i can't control the square on the other lakeside than it shouldn't change sides if i reach the opposing side. But if it does change sides, than there shouldn't appear partisans because they formed under my damned zone of control, if i may say so.

Back to Riga:

there should be some kind of national forces.

If Ireland, Portugal and Denmark are graced with some troops, the baltic states should get some as well.

[Liam]

One thing I must not agree with, though many of your points are valid a little bit indifferent about ports however. Reason being is this, yes it's obviously a flaw in the map, though obviously I do not care, learn the map and it's operations and that certian flaws are more idiosyncrocies, and not a big deal. What stands out more are much greater neccessities than these things...

Cities much regain supply, forces the attacker to encircle, that way encirclement requires a force rather than a silly corps running around it...

The Baltics and Ukrainians did offer much to the Axis cause..Whether or not a Corps appears in the Baltics is irrelevent, noone will invade it unless they're foolish. However should it host partisans, some would argue that the dead Russian armies are the leftovers of partisans (those who escaped capture or escaped from POW Camps) , so I'm not sure.

[xwormwood]

It is not that i can't learn the map (i really can indeed).

And I do LIKE the coastlines and sea restriction.

But I want them to work correctly.

[Retributar]

xwormwood ...Try the 'Strategic Command 1 and 2 Tech Support Forum'...

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=22

[John DiFool the 2nd]

I oftentimes have a FORCE, Liam-but all the AI needs

to resupply its forces is one uncovered avenue, and

its supply is right as rain next turn as everything

goes to 10, valuable units are shipped out, and (if

a city is in the cauldron) new cannon fodder pops

out of nowhere around the city.

[Hubert Cater]

xwormwood, thanks for the post and I just wanted to say that these are mostly known issues that I am working to correct

[xwormwood]

thank you!