You can take England BUT...

[aesopu]

I started amphibbing most of my forces instead of going for France and took out the main cities in England. But USA and USSR declared war and UK government escapes to Alexandria. On the other hand, I think the amphib feature is a bit overpowered as to be able to do this early on like this is askew in August of 1940. I think that they should not be able to unload right away after their movement. This is a big exploit.

Amphib major operations should not be possible like this without proper naval and air coverage.

[GrognardFortyPlus]

Originally posted by aesopu:

I started amphibbing most of my forces instead of going for France and took out the main cities in England. But USA and USSR declared war and UK government escapes to Alexandria.

So, how did it go? England basically out, but now faced against France, USA, and USSR?

[Marky]

i dont agree

though naval fire and air support are needed for a phib i think they should remain as they are

the phibs are jus fine

[aesopu]

No UK was still fighting from Alexandria. Demo ended after I started amphibbing back my forces to the east.

[aesopu]

I wonder if you can actually edit the unit characteristics in the editor to change this?

[Fubarno]

I found a Sea Lion too easy too. I captured Norway, Denmark, Benelux and France. I had begun an invasion of Yogoslavia. In adition I had brought the airborne corps to the channel coast and amphibed a HQ, 3 armored corps and two armies across the channel. These forces, with 3 level 2 air corps destroyed the Brit HQ, air and bomber corps and greatly weakened the corps defending London. One more turn before the demo ended and England would be flying a swastika over 10 Downing St. I was playing on the easy setting, but would it have made much of a difference? It seemed a bit far fetched and may require some tweaking.

I'll have to give it a spin at the higher dificulty settings. What dificulty were you using aesopu?

[hellraiser]

@gen marky ->>> Oh really!!!

What about majors still out of the war??? They can use amphibious transports as well - imagine russia setting up the invasion of Turkey to take place the same turn they enter the war - amphibious transports near Erzurum (2 attacking tiles, unless they are blocked by troops by default, which I don't think so, they probably cover the border), 1-2 troops blocking the Istanbul straits, paratroopers dropping near Ankara? The whole ideea of moving major powers' troops, while still neutral, is prone to exploits imo. But let's have confidence Maybe the reduced mpp they collect won't allow them to properly defend AND attack minors immediately.

USA though may send amphib forces prior to entering the war, cuz there ain't no real threat to their shores unless DOW + landing on majors is permitted.

The embarking-landing sequence is too powerful as I see from the demo. The SC 1 rule was better - basically now my scouting airforce is irrelevant - it can't spot approaching landing crafts since they move so many tiles and can stay in FOW until they strike

To be sure that you keep the cities safe, you must garrison the surrounding tiles not only the city tile itself. Not so good imo.

[aesopu]

Used the chicken little level. Also tried 0% level. Boy, if Sealion was this easy, we would be ispraken Deustch. You can concurrently launch Barbarossa and SeaLion at the same time in 41 I suspect. Or wait for a turn or two when the USSR is about to declare war. But the key would be to knock out England in the middle east at the same time as the US would enter right away.

[Marky]

again i disagree

its a suprise invasion

a well executed and covered amphib op will bea great success not just because of force employment but because of the suprise factor

look at the pacific campaign in WW2

they were hard fought but mostly suprises especially in the case of the philippines and guadalcanal, then we ironed out the tactics

if its not broke...

[hellraiser]

I guess you have a point here as well. Probably it is a matter of taste

But loading troops in boats prior to entering the war so you can hit the very turn you join is gamey imo

[Marky]

sumwat gamey

Patton: all right boys, lets get all those trannys loaded up now! send em to germany france and italy so we can get em all at the same time!

were gonna hold em by the nose and kik em in the ass boys!

it would b cool though

but guys remember the name of this game is BLITZKRIEG

[Edwin P.]

Simple Solution: Neutrals can't purchase Amphibious Transports (or normal transports too). But I would hold off on implementing this until after players have more experience with the game. It may not be needed.

[Marky]

Lightning war not turtle war

[Marky]

that could work edwin, nut like u said we should wait and see about implenmentation

[Marky]

i dont think that USA and USSR shoulod declare war right away

i think u sdhopuld be able to set them to be neutral like in SC1

i mean ur sposed to be able to CHAZNGE history right?

[Blashy]

Beleive me it is not. The problem is that you are playing the AI and the AI as Pzgdr stated was the last piece to be worked on and has not been run through and refined like the rest of the game.

I can assure you that you would NEVER succeed Sealion vs. a decent human player, hell he might just let you land in London and have a line around Manchester JUST so USA and USSR join... game over.

Plus if you take UK, UK is still alive in Alexandria, so now you have to fight UK, USA and USSR oh and in the case above France as well. The war ends before it even starts.

But even so, I've blockaded my friend out of doing Sealion and he prepared well for it, but I had so many UK ships well placed he could not land all his troops and thus was not done with Manchester and USSR/USA were in the war.

If you make amphibious the same way as transports in SC, they become useless, pretty much.

Neutral countries CAN NOT DOW on anyone, so your amphibious would be just sitting there waiting and loosing morale/readiness and that hurts alot, you'll find that out .

Yes you can prep them the turn before you enter the war this is only logical, you KNOW you will be entering the war, you start to send troops.

In the end, Sealion vs. a decent player (or well scripted AI). Forget it.

Sealion vs. USA vs. a decent player, forget it, easy to defend.

And always remember the diplomatic consequences of such tactics, I'm sure you'll find out, hehehe.

[Marky]

i still think that the DOW rules for USA and USSR should be changed as the whole point of playing the game as the Axis is to conquer and WIN

nufff said

[hellraiser]

"Yes you can prep them the turn before you enter the war this is only logical, you KNOW you will be entering the war, you start to send troops."

You enter the war against Axis not Turkey or Sweden or whatever ...

I have nothing to object against minor feeding BUT let the other player have a word about it as well. How is going the Axis player to interfere with such an attack? He has basically no clue about a potential invasion in the Black Sea (as if IRL axis never had spies in the area) only if he's lucky and has super LR tech , using Romania as a scouting base and having paratroopers in Romania ready to jump to the aid of the turks

"Plus if you take UK, UK is still alive in Alexandria, so now you have to fight UK, USA and USSR oh and in the case above France as well. The war ends before it even starts."

For the aliies, obviously - without the UK for a springboard you can only hope for a mid-east second front, which is too far away so as to be considered a second front

[ASHBERY76]

I'm concerned about the A.I comments.Most players will only play SP games,this is reality.I hope this area has most of the developers concentration in the coming weeks.

[Marky]

For the aliies, obviously - without the UK for a springboard you can only hope for a mid-east second front, which is too far away so as to be considered a second front

agreed

unless u invaded spain

[Blashy]

Oh that, sorry I did not reply. It's a none issue for me, if the Soviets intend to send enough troops to invade Turkey, I expect the Axis player to be all smiles, same for Sweden or others.

It could be an issue if you disabled diplomacy .

There is a cost to being the "good guys" and acting like bad guys.

GenMarky : What rules need to be changed for USA/USSR? They slowly climb and eventually join the war.

[Hubert Cater]

Essentially with the 6 month demo there is of course going to be a lot of experimentation and although a lot of these strategies are possible, the game is of course about making choices, I think you'll find that over the long haul some of these options may not be as viable as you might think.

For example, USSR could declare war on Turkey first turn but if this happens under the situation where the Axis player has a well prepared Barbarossa (ready to go) you might find that some of those Soviet Amphibious troops were more important to be held back elsewhere.

[aesopu]

The amphib aspect is too unrealistic. I guess a quick fix solution is to limit the movement of amphibs to 2 or 3. Germany can knockout the UK by the time of Barby. Germany can focus on creating a line in the east (for defensive purposes while Sea Lion goes on). With 6 airfleets plus Italian air should make England go down quickly. Then Germany can easily pile on the east and hold the US at bay or even do another amphibing to the US or Canada (takes two to three turns to travel east).

But maybe, there is of course stuff we don't know yet as the testers have probably hashed out this probability.

UK would need scripting for homeguard units to mobilize like crazy in 1940 or 1941 if sea Lion is attempted those years for balancing. Also maybe for the US to mobilize troops if an invasion happens at that time also in the US or Canada.

Would Germany manage if UK is knocked out against US and USSR even if the eastern front is prepped for a defensive front at first? I think so.

[Blashy]

Originally posted by aesopu:

The amphib aspect is too unrealistic. I guess a quick fix solution is to limit the movement of amphibs to 2 or 3. Germany can knockout the UK by the time of Barby. Germany can focus on creating a line in the east (for defensive purposes while Sea Lion goes on). With 6 airfleets plus Italian air should make England go down quickly. Then Germany can easily pile on the east and hold the US at bay or even do another amphibing to the US or Canada (takes two to three turns to travel east).

But maybe, there is of course stuff we don't know yet as the testers have probably hashed out this probability.

UK would need scripting for homeguard units to mobilize like crazy in 1940 or 1941 if sea Lion is attempted those years for balancing. Also maybe for the US to mobilize troops if an invasion happens at that time also in the US or Canada.

Would Germany manage if UK is knocked out against US and USSR even if the eastern front is prepped for a defensive front at first? I think so.

I'm not going to debate everything you mentioned here, I'll let you discover this on your own.

But I'll answer this:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> Would Germany manage if UK is knocked out against US and USSR even if the eastern front is prepped for a defensive front at first? I think so. </pre>

[Blashy]

Originally posted by aesopu:

The amphib aspect is too unrealistic. I guess a quick fix solution is to limit the movement of amphibs to 2 or 3. Germany can knockout the UK by the time of Barby. Germany can focus on creating a line in the east (for defensive purposes while Sea Lion goes on). With 6 airfleets plus Italian air should make England go down quickly. Then Germany can easily pile on the east and hold the US at bay or even do another amphibing to the US or Canada (takes two to three turns to travel east).

But maybe, there is of course stuff we don't know yet as the testers have probably hashed out this probability.

UK would need scripting for homeguard units to mobilize like crazy in 1940 or 1941 if sea Lion is attempted those years for balancing. Also maybe for the US to mobilize troops if an invasion happens at that time also in the US or Canada.

Would Germany manage if UK is knocked out against US and USSR even if the eastern front is prepped for a defensive front at first? I think so.

I'm not going to debate everything you mentioned here, I'll let you discover this on your own.

But I'll answer this:

Would Germany manage if UK is knocked out against US and USSR even if the eastern front is prepped for a defensive front at first? I think so.

Not a chance. And I'll let you discover why on that one also.