Bored of Airfleets already

[Liam]

I am so tired now that Airfleets are about useless, the UK instead of using an airfleet in the desert or in England could use one in England to defend against an inevitable Sea Lion. Evem though I'm not certian what good those fleets will do, another Medium Bomber might be of better use because you cannot knock down the Axis Ports inevitably surging toward your tiny Little Island??? Though there is answer for this as there is for the other irreneous topic(this word I'm beginning to enjoy using) Hint Moderators Hint

The answer being do not Play the game if you do not like it, also the answer to the shortness of breath for UK defense, a Houserule, making it impossible without a DOW upon the USSR?

Hmmm, answers everywhere folks

[SeaMonkey]

Liam....have you been messing around "The Still"? :confused:

Your beginning to worry me, what the hell is all this jibberish? AFs are fine. You can have two at advanced status and an HB, also advanced, for UK early.

Are we playing the same game?

Instead of nipping at "The Still", which by the way has been converted to producing E-85, you should be touting the need for our beloved .......ARTILLERY! Rockets are lame!

Now leave the ethanol alone, my flex fuel chevy needs it for my appointments with "ZeeK the Peak" and my old buddy "Mel, the Swell", and "Get Back", to where you once belonged.

[R.J.]

Originally posted by Liam:

also the answer to the shortness of breath for UK defense, a Houserule, making it impossible without a DOW upon the USSR?

I had an idea for a rule that would give the RN a shot at defeating SL rather than an outright ban on it.

Amphib tech level squared = the number of tiles that can be moved before unloading. i.e. with level 3 tech you can move the full 9 tiles before unloading – 4 tiles with level 2, 1 tile with level 1, and with level 0 you have to start the turn adjacent to land.

The axis could invest like crazy in tech if they really wanted to do it, but otherwise it would give the UK a fighting chance with their Navy.

EDIT: or use Rolend's tech level system as a house rule:

"I still think lowering the range is not the way to go. Now that a Amphib tec has been added it should go something like this.

Level 1. Units must wait one turn next to land before unloading. No movement allowed after unloading.

Level 2. Units can unload on same turn. No movement allowed after landing.

Level 3. Units can unload on same turn. Units may move if enough AP's after landing."

[ July 11, 2006, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: R.J. ]

[Iron Ranger]

While massed air / operating it around is a problem (due to the moral / readness drops I guess); I personally feel Air fleets are underpowered... against Naval units. And Bombers are over powered against Navel units. Historically the smaller bombers ect sank ships in WW2. Not B-17s droping for sky high... they rarely to never hit ships. Flip these values around and things would be better.

[Blashy]

The amphibious range of Axis transports is still too long IMHO.

It should be reduced by 1, I would even consider 2.

[Iron Ranger]

Reduce it to 3-4 for all..... whats the number of hex's from London to Normandy.. 3? If people want more put it in Tech. Let It start at 1 US at 1 with more chits invested already.

[Sombra]

Originally posted by Iron Ranger:

Reduce it to 3-4 for all..... whats the number of hex's from London to Normandy.. 3? If people want more put it in Tech. Let It start at 1 US at 1 with more chits invested already.

why should the US have already 1 point in this tech? Since it is a cheap tech to research I think you could leave it up the player to do the investment. But this is minor detail.

Regarding Airfleets I think you nailed it . A single airfleet is nearly useless or say its fine . If you mass them together the are monster due to morale and readiness hit without taking damage. To some point this applies to the ground attacks too. I dont know if it would be the best solution to reduce efectiveness of the airfleets. One solution would be simply to allow AA tech to work aginst airfleets, and perhaps limit somewhat the effectivness of airfleets against fortresses. I think if AA works and you could fortify certain areas against airfleets and the problem of Air is solved. Why are airfleets used aginst cities and fortresses because they dont get hurt and it would be costly to attack with ground units. Hurt them and they wont be used as bunker buster par excellence.

Simply reduce their values and they will be useless and obsolete. Weather and winter + costs already limit their use. Regarding amphib transports Balshy I agree simply to limit their range to 3 or 4 squares and then the problem of the sealion would go away.

[Blashy]

Yep, amphib range is being reduced by 2 in my mod for Germany, USSR.

1 for UK, USA and Italy.

It will also make the NA campaign more historical, As bringing amphibious troops past Egypt will be more risky and the morale will be lower by the time they get there.

As for AFs, I feel my mod is "almost" on the mark.

I say almost because I think the raised defense values for fortifications, fortresses, cities and capitals might need to be raised by one more.

This would make a historical impact that AFs would face heavier casulaties due to AA in these locations.

NOTE: You can't use AA for AFs, I thought it was a good idea but then you need a counter for it. Because as the levels of AA become higher, AFs would be virtually destroyed while they would not have a counter tech to invest in to defend against AA.

[Iron Ranger]

I know your going for game balance, but Air Power was king in the west with good reason. Without there never would have been a D-Day ect.

Bombers, if used right in this game are insanely overpowered. But they are EXPENSIVE (as are air fleets), and take FOREVER to build. Thier is a real balance here as if you go this route your giving up alot of MPPs for a long time, and once you have them reinfocing them is insanly expensive (if you go the air route then your going to need tech=costly)

Again I just dont see how you can consider these units over powered... unless used in a mass'd approce (same as navel units btw). Perhaps the solution would be to script HQs to only support a max of two air units (one Air on Bomber?).... so that if you wanted to mass your air fleets in NA you better have alot of HQs near by (or UK for that matter).

[Liam]

I heard this mentioned by a few. Airfleets being used as Fortification busters, instead of Artillery or Rockets. Perhaps we should tweak rockets to have a special ability to kill Forts instead! Heavy Guns were used throughout history and in WW2, i.e. Sevastapol crushed by Heavy German Cannon

Fighters should be primarily aimed toward air superiority, land attack, naval attack and a few other minor roles, but in SC2 as in SC1 their stalemate breakers. Several airfleets kill a unit that allow for 1 or 2 tiles/hexes cleared to allow for a breech in the defense, similarly with Forts, they beat it down with less loss to themselves until they level it for Naval bombardment, or Land attack or whatever, in the case of Malta for instance.. all air assault with divebombers and medium bombers and some heavy bombers, mixed Italian and German. German U-boats raiding resupply. It's a shock they could hamper supply in the Meditterranean when they could barely keep Malta up and running. It's sort of unrealistic when sieging it that it has any effect on supply but I suppose that's abstract for Hubert's design respresenting the long supply roads of the Desert what would be more accurate is this, Desert Supply Effect, hampers and them BigBang on the Ports and cities of N.Africa and the SAME for the Allies

In the last Major Engagement in Egypt Rommel had 1/3rd the Oil he needed, not due to Malta, more from Fighters/fighterbombers/Bombers based in Egypt striking Convoys

As far as airfleets, their primarily role again is being abused and misused, in my very first game I used them as one object to kill units that my land forces couldn't reach. They got 3 or 4 bars experience and each turn my airfleets killed off a Red Unit, on the Eastern Front. Had I had LandTech to match I would've won the war because Rambo was rather inexperienced and I'd of drive to Moscow, though head IW3 and Heavy Tanks and I never caught up even with many chits invested.