Atomic Bomb

[Honch]

Why has nobody ever asked the developers about adding an atomic bomb tech tree? Acheiving the bomb would be expensive and time consuming but once you have it you could buy them. I would imagine if dropped on a tile (in a bombers range) it would decimate 80% of resource and unit values permanently?

[Blashy]

Who says we never thought about it?

[Honch]

And what was the result?

[jon_j_rambo]

yeah, result?

[Hubert Cater]

Probably won't see it anytime soon

[SixthArmy]

It was never used in theater is prolly why they left it out

[santabear]

posted March 11, 2003 10:53 AM

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And now something a bit more 'on target' for this thread:

It just occured to me as I was responding to Shaka that SC Technology allows the creation of absurdly (by WWII standards) powerful jet fighters, but has no nuclear weapons research possiblity. It doesn't feel right to me that the game lets us explore such a theoretical "what if" in regard to aircraft without acknowledging an undeniable hisorical component. If the game goes past August, 1945 the US gets the atom bomb. (This is another solution to the 'unlimited manpower' issue, I guess)

Obviously an atom bomb or two could really foul up the game as a game, but it's worth considering how far nuclear weapons had been developed by the time jet aircraft reached the stage implied by level 5 jets.

Also rockets turned into "missles" fairly rapidly after the war, I think. (But I'm on pretty shaky ground here...someone correct me if this is wrong).

But I'm sure about the atom bomb

For those involved in the MPP debate: Consider how many MPPs were represented by the Manhattan Project (unbelievable...); this is probably another reason the US only gets 180 MPPs. But there is no payoff: The US never gets atomic weapons.

[Honch]

Exactly, if we want to play a true "what if" with some historical realism we need this option. If D-Day failed or never happened and the Russians had not already pushed Germany into the Atlantic by 1946 the US most certainly would have employed "the bomb" in a strategic or even tactical campaign. A successful Germany, alive into 1947 may have also had the bomb. Give us the chance Hubert!!

[Lars]

The old joke is if you want an atomic bomb in a wargame, just light the map on fire.

[Honch]

I have designed a localization.txt file for the atomic bomb. I will upload it with my "Changes I have Made" campaign. It replaces the Heavy Bombers research option. I would love to add a custom .wav sound for this but don't know how to have the game replace regular bombing sound with my custom one. (I stole it from CIV4) Any help Hubert?

[Honch]

Ahhhh, but I can't change the increased attack values that a heavy bomber (atomic bomb) upgrade gives a bomber.

[Hubert Cater]

This is possible and should actually be covered in the manual under one of the Editor sub topics.

For a real life working example take a look at how the D-Day campaign has been customized, i.e. take a look at the subfolders in the 'Campaigns\_D-Day.cgn' folder and the 'campaign.ini' file specifically and it should give you an idea of how this is done.

Either way sounds interesting and let us know how it works out

[Honch]

Thanks Hubert, I checked. I can definately add my new .wav to the directory and my new .bmp for the mushroom cloud, but how do I tell the game to start using these as soon as heavy bombers (atomic bomb) is reached? I want to use the regular sounds and explosion until that point. Also, how do I change the attack values on my bombers when atomic bomb is reached?

[Hubert Cater]

Unfortunately this sort of fine tuning is not currently possible.

[Honch]

Too bad....

[Jim Mason]

The problem with atom bombs at this stage is that you can't have a LOT of them. They will have to be really expensive. US only had three - one to test and two to use. I have no idea how long it took to get more, obviously the facilities, etc. got ramped up and production increased. Also, there are a lot of OTHER factors to consider with them, such as after-effects (fallout), diplomatic effects, etc.

Having said this, I would also like to see them, but would want them to be at least somewhat realistic, otherwise, not at all.

When I was in the Navy we played RISK where we tried lots of ways to modify it to use nukes and it just doesn't work, it turns into a nukefest and is no fun. And we had virtually unlimited time to experiment and play them out.

FWIW . . .

[santabear]

Well, how many MPPs would be required to successfully research an atom bomb? And then how many more would be required to build one?

By keeping the costs high, the number of bombs would remain small. There could also be a certain per cent chance of a dud/fizzle.

The biggest problem I see with SC/SC2 and atomic weapons is that these devices are more political tools than actual weapons of war. Their primary purpose is to exert influence on political decisions. It seems that is hard to model. How would you factor an atomic bomb into the formula that decides when Germany surrenders? And it seems that you might get some very un-realistic feeling games from using it.

SB

[Edwin P.]

Suggestion:

1. Building an A Bomb takes: 12 Months - long lead time.

2. Build Limit is 1 - so you can only have 1 unit at a time.

3. Requires Level 5 in a Specified Tech. Lower levels of that Tech give you nothing beyond popups says - Level 1:Uranium Enrichment Achieved, Level 2: First Nuclear Reaction,... Level 5: Atomic Bomb Test Successful

4. A-Bomb Costs 1500MPP. So while you are saving for this you can't build or research anything else for about 5 to 8 turns.

5. Researching this option requires control of the mine in Canada or the mine in Norway (Source of Heavy Water). If you lose access to heavy water you can't purchase any more chits in this tech. Futhermore, each chit costs 200MPP.

5 Chits = 1000MPP + Bomb 1500MPP = Total Cost of 2500MPP.

[Lars]

Easier way would be just to have all Bombers jump to Level 5, attack strengths maxed, and their chance to hit the ground/sea unit parked on the target raise to 100% in addition to resource strike.

On a 50 square mile tile, that's even being generous for the effect of an WWII atomic bomb.

Would make an interesting variable event for 1945-7, but would really unbalance the game as research area.

Because that's all the US would do.

[Blashy]

Not really since you can raise the caost of research.

So make it it cost so much that investing 1 chit a year would be the average.

AND in the end, you need men on the ground.

[Lars]

But they don't have to be US.

Russkies will do just fine after the Bombers go through.