Sink the Bismarck !!!

[jon_j_rambo]

In may of nineteen forty-one the war had just begun

The germans had the biggest ships

That had the biggest guns

The Bismark was the fastest ship

That ever sailed the seas

On her deck were guns as big as steers

And shells as big as trees

Out of the cold and foggy night

Came the british ship the Hood

And ev'ry british seaman he knew and understood

They had to sink the Bismark the terror of the sea

Stop those guns as bid as steers

And those shells as big as trees

We'll find that german battleship

That's makin' such a fuss

We gotta sink the Bismark

'Cause the world depends on us

Hit the decks a-runnin' boys

And spin those guns around

When we find the Bismark we gotta cut her down

The Hood found the Bismark and on that fatal day

The Bismark started firin' fifteen miles away

We gotta sink the Bismark was the battle sound

But when the smoke had cleared away

The mighty Hood went down

For six long days and weary nights

They tried to find her trail

Churchill told the people put ev'ry ship a-sail

'Cause somewhere on that ocean

I know she's gotta be

We gotta sink the Bismark to the bottom of the sea

We'll find that german battleship

That's makin' such a fuss

We gotta sink the Bismark

'Cause the world depends on us

Hit the decks a-runnin' boys

And spin those guns around

When we find the Bismark we gotta cut her down

The fog was gone the seventh day

And they saw the mornin' sun

Ten hours away from homeland

The Bismark made its run

The admiral of the british fleet said

Turn those bows around

We found that german battleship

And we're gonna cut her down

The british guns were aimed

And the shells were comin' fast

The first shell hit the Bismark

They knew she couldn't last

That mighty german battleship is just a memory

Sink the Bismark was the battle cry

That shook the seven seas

We found that german battleship

Was makin' such a fuss

We had to sink the Bismark

'Cause the world depends on us

We hit the deck a-runnin' and

We spun those guns around

We found the mighty Bismark

And then we cut her down

We found that german battleship

Was makin' such a fuss

We had to sink the Bismark

'Cause the world depends on us

We hit the deck a-runnin' and

We spun those guns around

We found the mighty Bismark

And then we cut her down

Note: Iran is next.

[ September 24, 2006, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ]

[JerseyJohn]

I always liked that song, Brother Rambo. It came out when I was about eleven (1960) along with other battle songs about Custer's Last Stand, the Battle of New Orleans and The Alamo, all of them had movies running that year.

I think Village of the Damned also came out at that time, but it didn't spark any popular ballads.

[Guest Mike]

If you like stirring british music then go find the theme tunes for 633 Sqn, Mosquito Squadron and The Dam Busters on the net - great stuff!!

[Curry]

Originally posted by Stalin's Organist:

If you like stirring british music then go find the theme tunes for 633 Sqn, Mosquito Squadron and The Dam Busters on the net - great stuff!!

love the song by roger whitterker, "I got to leave ol durham town."

"I've got to leave ol durhan town, I've got to leave ol durham town, I've got to leave ol durham town. and that leaving gotta get me down.

back in 1944, I remember daddy walking out the door. Momma told me he was going to war, he was leaving, leaving leaving leaving,

I've got to leave ol durham town . . . and that leavings going to get me down

When I was a boy I spent my time, sitting on the banks of the river tyme, watching all the ships going down to war, leaving leaving leaving....

[Liam]

Oddly enough, Strategic Command 2 Naval warfare is more like WW1, it's unlikely you'll ever bring out the Kriegsmarine the dread of the Baltic... You'll leave her in port in till the end of the war if you're smart.. and it's about the only real move you can make...

The Bismark was going out to raid commerce, I think all Surface ships should have limited Commerce raiding abilities

The Brits kept the Germans in check by blocking the North Sea in WW1 and WW2

the Germans raided Merchant shipping in both wars with surface ships..Some were more effective than U-Boats

"Post the exploits of all the famous German commerce raiders, the famous engagements in the Artic Sea, South America, Indian Ocean, during WW2 , very impressive and very interesting!"

[daringly]

If you love WWII strategic games, there is an amazing board game: GMT Games' World at War. It is a descendant of Avalon Hill's "Third Reich". I consider it the single best game ever made.

There are a lot of similarites between SC2 and AWAW. If I could ever find a good computer version of AWAW, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

[Stendhal]

It's spelled "Bismarck" as in 'Bismarck, North Dakota'.

[vveedd]

Originally posted by daringly:

If you love WWII strategic games, there is an amazing board game: GMT Games' World at War. It is a descendant of Avalon Hill's "Third Reich". I consider it the single best game ever made.

There are a lot of similarites between SC2 and AWAW. If I could ever find a good computer version of AWAW, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

I agree. Third Reich is the best game I have ever played and still playing. Old computer version is also good if you ignore bugs or you have 3R GOLD program which can repair most of bugs.

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

Note: Iran is next.

US don’t have enough money and manpower for another war.Especially not for Iran which has much more stronger army then Iraq.

[ September 22, 2006, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: vveedd ]

[n0kn0k]

I believe Iraq had the best army of those 2 countries pre-90's. They were even armed by the US and France i believe against Iran

[Curry]

Originally posted by n0kn0k:

I believe Iraq had the best army of those 2 countries pre-90's. They were even armed by the US and France i believe against Iran

mostly soviet weapons, some French and whatever they could get of the US or anyone else. I beleive all their armor was from Russia/USSR.

[Xanos]

In response to the Iran talk,

We (The USA) could go to war with Iran and would be able to acheive the goals of the operation. While it is true that America doesn't have the manpower to actually do a land invasion of Iran, there are many other ways in which the war could be fought.

The main problem with the war would not be from Iran but the gobal outcry and predicted increase of terrorist attacks in nearby nations. Some predict that sucide bombing will increase from one a week, to one every half hour in 12 different cities.

n0kn0k, you are correct in your statement that Iraq had a stronger militay than Iran in the late 80's to early 90's. It was funded through the United states and through various other counties to maintain a balance of power in the Middle East.

[jon_j_rambo]

How about a mushroom, would that work? Then a middle finger to the world. USA is King.

[Liam]

Iran was way behind Iraq, I guess they played the wrong sides. Though both nations were getting Yesterdday's equipment, what a bunch of embecile's..

Saudi Arabia spent all their money on Limo's, tennis courts, luxury resorts, $5000 wine, women, etc... Tomorrow there will be no oil and they will be herding sheep and riding camels Invest in Low Energy Vehicles, alternative Energy, this is the wave of the future. Convert coal into Oil 100% until then.. We're overpaying for oil anyways, OPEC is ripping us off

Invade Iran? Bahhhh humbug, those people don't want Americans, they like their Psychopaths, meanwhile Isreal has 303 nukes, 3 former Soviet ones.. Let the Jews sort em out

They feel that after WW2 they must defend their rights and their Civilization, and they will..

[Bromley]

I'd be very surprised if Saudi Arabia etc., whilst wasting a lot of money, didn't in fact invest a whole bunch in the world economy (AKA America, as Rambo keeps telling us). Whatever else you think of Moore, that "get out of US" card issued to prominent Saudis related to Bin Laden should be a hint.

[Liam]

Bromley, they have invested yes, though Germany is wealthier than Saudi Arabia? Odd, Germany has no natural resources any longer in comparison... After WW2 they had a lot of craters to count, now they have likely top 3 or 4 Economic Powerhouses in the world.

Most of the workers in Saudi, or Kuwait are Korean imports.. The locals don't want to do the work themselves... There are very poor class and very rich, The Royalty there lives it up. Men like Bin Laden family have it all. Monarchy tends to be fairly corrupt and hypocritical. These men preach do not drink but all own liquor cabinets, they preach piety, though there are more Gold Shops in their cities then stripmalls in American ones...

Do not get me wrong, there are smart Saudis, in our schools.. My Aunt married a Jordanian, he got a degree in Computer Programming and lives in PA making 100-150k a year.. Hmmm, living the American Dream imported Arabians ? I wonder when he will stop sending money back home, will his 3 children still feel the pull of the Homeland or just like American Japanese and Germans indoctrination?

Originally posted by Bromley:

I'd be very surprised if Saudi Arabia etc., whilst wasting a lot of money, didn't in fact invest a whole bunch in the world economy (AKA America, as Rambo keeps telling us). Whatever else you think of Moore, that "get out of US" card issued to prominent Saudis related to Bin Laden should be a hint.

[Bromley]

I suspect that the wealth profile of Saudi Arabia (etc.) is significantly more top heavy than Germany (or even the US). Much of that realised wealth would still be controlled by the same people were the [insert oppressed mass here] to rise up.

I wonder if Al Gore would have been so anti-oil if he was in office. Either way, remove the dependence on oil and you cease to fund the religious loons (or at least the unfriendly ones).

[Retributar]

Jimmy Carter [A Democrat] advocated freeing us up from being enslaved to oil...using Solar, Alternative Fuel's...Battery Powered Vehicles and so on, but the Republican's dismantled all of his effort's as quickly as they could when they were finally in office!.

And no, Al Gore would have been Anti-Oil as would have John Kerry!, but because the Republicans have Cheated on the elections to instead put themselves in office, we are now headed for a major disaster. The present economic system in the U.S. is also a great part of their doing,...so look forward to a Long-Hard-Recession...probably a DEPRESSION... starting with a Major-Slowdown in early 2007 coming soon to YOUR neighborhood!.

[Liam]

Yes, I have to agree with you both, the men making money off the oil imports are likely Republican, Texans who own most of the refineries and do not want us to have alternatives.

Some of the Democrats, though not perfect are more aimed toward alternative energy and less toward big business monopolies which alternative energy would undermine in oil tycoons. Our Economy is headed into a steep decline that which may never recover if there is not Revolution, that Revolution is our "own energy production"

The Trillions of dollars spent to secure the MiddleEast could likely lead to a source, by the time we Free Iraq we may have afforded to fund the evolution of such a thing...

And yes, Saudis likely have more Cash than Germans, but just like a man with 500G and a man who owns 10% of this and 10% of that... though they may be worth about the same, it's easier to spend the 500G than cash in on your investments. Considering the nature and history of the Arabians I would go with the Germans as far as future Prospects.. DHL, was American Express, I wonder what DHL stands for? The van is nolonger red white and blue

Think of what just happened to BASF, largest take over of an American company by Germany, they definitely saw UK and France were conqouring the world economically and decided to dismantle the concept of World Conquest via Arms

[n0kn0k]

Germany still has one of the highest unemployment rates of the original EU countries though. Especially in eastern Germany. But it's getting better. The Netherlands are by far the most economicly stable country around there. Lowest unemployment rate in Europe, and a solid economy and social structure.

If America would nuke Iran they would prolly go bankrupt due to many boycots. How would Japan react to America nuking some other country? They got so much money invested in the US that they could collapse the economie if they wanted. The US stock-exchange would crash and not to mention everybody on this planet would hate them(if they aren't already doing that due to some retard president).

[Retributar]

Here's but a little of what i have been studying lately!,...and im also invested in GOLD for very-good reason,...as you will see below!.

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/laird/laird083106.html

Expectation of US recession:

Chris Laird

www.PrudentSquirrel.com

Aug 31, 2006

In most of the gold analysis I see now, it appears that most of the bullish assessments are based on the world economic growth of recent years, but little regard is given to a coming severe US economic contraction. That is to begin in earnest by about Jan 2007.

The US and West are going to find a world hostile to their intent, and become enmeshed in a deconstruction of the great World War 2 Western Prosperity Bubble. The world will have to reorganize economically, in great pain, to replace this prosperity bubble.

The US will lead the heavily indebted west, the EU and Japan into a deep recession. The rest of the world, even gangbusters China and India, will follow soon after.

But, continuing on the economic front, the US is fast about to begin a depression. The housing bubble will lead to a once in a century depression like the 1930's. Japan and China and India might not take it as bad, but they might also grind down with us too. I expect they will follow us into Depression.

Europe is stagnating, hopelessly socialistic.

In short, we are about to witness the 'post prosperity' world in the West.

The beginning of the next US recession/depression will find the West with few financial reserves to cope. The trade partners of the US are also going to find tough slogging starting after Jan 2007, but delayed some perhaps.

Post WW2 Western Prosperity Bubble

After WW2, the West, led by the US, totally dominated the world economically. The West defined then was Europe, Japan, and the US. Since then, we have all accumulated massive public and private debts. This was done as the children of the baby boomers attempted to live at a standard of their parents, and the victor generation of WW2.

At that time, China was an economic basket case. Russia was a blustering but bankrupt command economy, and Latin America a constant political mess. But the resource bull of recent years has filled Latin America's coffers, and they are breaking away from the Western economic/political juggernaut. Russia is finding itself financially again, now with close to $300 billion of reserves, largely built from the resource boom. China is exploding economically, as we all know.

But Japan is mired in a seeming constant battle with deflation, their recent economic prosperity aside. Europe is socialistic. The US is a finance basket case. The next serious recession will deconstruct into a depression for the West.

Then all the other players, China, India, Russia, Latin America, Asia, will deconstruct. The whole prosperity of those nations is very dependent upon the post WW2 prosperity regime in the West. When it lets go, for various and sundry reasons, they will have to create a new way to function economically. In the meantime, I foresee riots and deep economic depression for them too.

What is the big question about gold now?

It has taken all my powers to try and get a picture of what gold is doing right now.

Firstly, gold is horizontal for the last month or so. Sure, there is a ten dollar up or down day. But no major trends have been established or even continued. Rather the trend right now is horizontalism. But gold is acting atypically, like there is some giant hand over the markets. Stock markets are also very stagnant, or falling, recent rises are not showing much traction.

I am quite sure that many gold investors feel the same way right now. Of course, quiet periods are usually a harbinger of major action.

The entire world is balancing between gangbuster growth in the East and an actual depression about to emerge in the US. It is the last gasp of the finance bubble worldwide that seems to be centered in the US now, but actually started in Japan in the 1980's. I'm going to cut that part of the discussion short so I can get to the point.

The big gold story right now is the impending economic recession or depression coming right now upon the US, and the end of the post WW2 prosperity boom in the West.

I don't feel that it is a large jump for me to say the US is just about to enter a depression. Not a recession but a depression. Whether the rest of the world follows is another issue. To give you an idea of what a depression is, look at the recession of the early '90s. That was quite severe, but in no way a real depression. Or look at the micro recession post 911 - severe and deep world wide but short. The depression I foresee for the US, commencing about Jan 2007, is a long deep contraction that will ultimately be called the greatest US downturn since the 1930's. It might even exceed that in severity.

Gold is reflecting this sentiment in the horizontal prices of the last month or two. The US housing bubble is clearly collapsing fast. The news out now about it is not sporadic bad news, its just very bad all around. If the US was showing better economic health, gold right now would be about $50 higher at least and probably $100 higher. I think gold first, and the commodity market in general, is going to reflect declining world economic demand that will become more clear by Jan 2007. Gold is by far the most forward looking 'commodity'. My previous articles on coming stock drops coming and gold anticipating this also speak to the same issue.

If the US were to fall into the recession and depression that I foresee will start about Jan 2007, about 70% of US economic activity will pull back greatly- the US consumer. Considering the fact that the US accounts for about 30% of the entire world GDP. That US consumer retraction will spell doom for the world economy as well.

Gold is reflecting this expectation. The fact is, if economic activity- in the world's largest economy by far- collapses, as I suspect it will beginning in 2007, gold will find that inflation vanishes, industrial production drops precipitously, and all those expensive commodities now are going to tank starting in 2007.

Greatest gold force now

The single greatest force on gold right now is an expectation of a collapsing US economy due to the collapsing housing bubble. That expectation is overriding every major gold bullish force now. Even war fears in the Middle East. The expectation of a coming US economic contraction is a great hand over the gold and commodities markets now.

Now, there are seasonal reasons for gold to rise this winter/fall. But if war fears barely even kept gold up in the Middle East, who is to say that seasonal gold purchases in the Fall/Winter will keep gold up either?

Frankly, I smell a weak or horizontal gold market this winter. It is primarily based on a dropping US economy, and dropping economic activity means deflation forces and a weakening gold market. Gold has repeatedly tested the 600 mark recently.

Lots of gold analysts are saying we will see 725 or so gold by December. If the world economy was to hold in place at its present economic activity, maybe that will happen. But, I think we are going to see worse and worse economic stats out of the US, a pausing US and Japanese interest rate environment, due to economic sickening. That will translate into weaker commodities. Do you know that a typical new house has something like 1200 lbs of copper? Imagine the drop in copper demand if new real estate construction halts. Of course, China appears to be able to consume all the copper they can buy, but if the US slows greatly and their exports to us drop, and their own out of control building bubble pops, how much will copper drop? A lot.

These financial writers forecasting strong gold into December are frankly looking at the recent economic past, but not the turning economic situation in the US now. It would seem that predictions for 725 gold by December are ignoring the severely weakening US economy. Often, financial writers stay caught up in the latest financial trends and miss the changes afoot.

The financial trends of recent memory are:

Rising inflation

Commodity shortages

World economic boom from finance bubbles and the mother of them all ­ a world real estate bubble.

Changing financial trends afoot now are:

Collapsing US and world housing bubbles

Weakening interest rate environment and inverted yield curve

Coming US economic contraction and loss of US consumer confidence

The fact is, we are just about to witness the end of the gigantic post World War Two prosperity bubble in the West. But, the markets have not quite realized the extent of this change coming upon the world, nor the clear effects it will have on stocks and commodities too, once the US finally drops into a serious recession beginning about Jan 2007.

In other words, the financial and gold markets are not quite cognizant of this huge shift in world economics. But gold might indeed be smelling the implications- hence, gold is very weak on the upside, and normally bullish news barely takes hold.

A weakening US economy is going to cause higher federal deficits yes. It will not cause higher interest rates however. It will not cause higher US inflation either. Of course there are some inflationary forces in the pipeline, but once that is let out, I foresee a weakening inflation environment in the world in 2007. Unless you think that China is ready to take over the role of the US right now... something I don't think is quite ready to happen, to say the least. China has about 20 to 30% of the size of US GDP.

Now, what does this mean for the price of gold? It would mean more horizontal price activity now, but as more bad economic news comes out of the US gold will find this suppressive. I think the gold bugs who are forecasting gold to rise to 725 or higher this year are not seeing the impact a slowing US economy will have on commodities and gold, and are really looking only at the recent several years where the housing bubble has dominated the US and world economy and of course has driven commodities over the moon. IN fact, financial writers and investors are not seeing the coming end of the great post World War 2 prosperity bubble in the West either.

If China were to follow the US into recession, as I expect, I foresee a very large scale drop in commodity prices as well beginning in 2007 possibly by January, but definitely by June.

Now there is one major caveat to all this, the US economic decline and gold dropping. That is major war news. War news is big for commodities and gold too.

Chris Laird

Editor in Chief

website: www.PrudentSquirrel.com

email: editor@PrudentSquirrel.com

The Prudent Squirrel Newsletter is a big picture gold and economic commentary. Stop by and have a look.

321gold Inc

[TaoJah]

The US borrows 1 billion dolars EVERY SINGLE DAY from China.

You are totally dependant of foreign oil.

The US is hated troughout the world for the tortures in Iraq : even when US-soldiers admit to kill an entire family of a 14-year old girl, then rape the girl, then kill her too, they aren't convicted.

Your own officials leak names of secret agents when their husbands write honest reports that contradict the official spinning.

Somewhere next year, more US soldiers will have died in Iraq then US citizens on 9/11.

People in Iraq have less electricity and water then before the US invasion.

The Sauodi's & Koeweities own about 7% of the real estate in the US.

And you want to invade ANOTHER country ?

You should stop listening to Fox news, lol.

[Retributar]

TaoJah...UPDATE:

More Soldier's have been killed in Afghanistan & Iraq just in the last day or so as the casualty tallies indicate, than have died in the 2-Trade Tower's on 9/11.

You are also correct on your assessment!, but remember, this is a 'REPUBLICAN GOVERNMENT' in charge!. If i remember correctly, i think the U.S. is borrowing closer to $3,000,0000,000.00 dollar's a day from China!. Bush keep's reiterating that he want's more TAX-CUT'S [For the RICH!].

They represent the RICH for the RICH and be damned to everyone and everything else!, including the responsibility of taking care of the country and it's citizen's!,...or having consideration for other nation's people's in this world!. Judgement Day is coming!.

The National Deficit in the U.S. is almost $9-Trillion Dollar's [Doubled by Bush since he took over from Clinton],...and as well the U.S. TRADE-DEFICIT is $68-Trillion Dollar's or 8 X the National Debt!.

We will shortly, most likely see a DEPRESSION even worse than the one they had in the 1930's!.

[ September 23, 2006, 05:04 AM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

[Yogi]

Pretty sad thread, too bad it has to contaminate the SC2 forum.

[Capt Andrew]

I agree Yogi - one of the reasons the forums are painful to surf through when you are just looking for some SC2 game information. I really wish the moderators would create an Off Topic forum where people could go to have these conversations - this thread has NOTHING to do with SC2.

[Liam]

Well, if we're murdering and raping children in Iran, I suppose we should follow good Ole Russia's lead, I Quote From the Government of Russian Federation, "IF a Father wants to sell his daughter it's his own business, if that finances the war then so be it! If Policeman here captivate and Rape, mutilate, torture and kill our Daughters, it is because there Mother's talked too much! You best beware, Do not come to the Russian Federation you will be targeted too!"

That is from a Government letter my Girlfriend wrote for Amnesty International to the Russian President (Hmmmm, Dictator) Tens of thousands of what you say our troops are doing is going on in a Nation a few hundreds miles north, and what you're talking of is probably is about 10 or 20 cases... Isolated..Amnesty writes about what you're talking of, it is mostly due to the Governments in those nations allowing it. You think that our operatives do much in Iran without their Governmental Consent? Hardly!

Right now there is 12 year old girls being sold into sexual slavery in the European Union. Little Children used as Soldiers and Slave Labourers. 1 in 4 Norwegian Wives are beaten regularly by their husbands to the third degree, you should see the slogan for Tourists to the country. The Domestic Violence in France makes us Americans look like RearEnd Kissers to our wives. I'm shocked that we have such a Liberated Nation. American's have no clue just how easy they have it and how good, it's a nowonder they take it for granted and people like you knock them. You do not know the value of Freedom, likely have never loss or fought for. I have Several Family members Ex-Veterans and not from 1812! Recently! I am not even scratching the surface of what goes on around the world.

"People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones! I am only mentioning 1/20th of what is going on in these countries! Try to make a difference and you too will be silenced, and I'll point my finger at my Government, they just don't care and by the way they support it to a degree! but of course that is not on CNN!"

Originally posted by TaoJah:

The US borrows 1 billion dolars EVERY SINGLE DAY from China.

You are totally dependant of foreign oil.

The US is hated troughout the world for the tortures in Iraq : even when US-soldiers admit to kill an entire family of a 14-year old girl, then rape the girl, then kill her too, they aren't convicted.

Your own officials leak names of secret agents when their husbands write honest reports that contradict the official spinning.

Somewhere next year, more US soldiers will have died in Iraq then US citizens on 9/11.

People in Iraq have less electricity and water then before the US invasion.

The Sauodi's & Koeweities own about 7% of the real estate in the US.

And you want to invade ANOTHER country ?

You should stop listening to Fox news, lol.