Thrawn - Adding MORE Historical Realism

[Leedsunited40]

To reflect the doctrine of the day ALL nations cept Germany should have -1 negated from their Tank and Air Defense (under Combat Target Data)AND -1 Tank Attack for infantry corps and armor.

This reflects the reaction to blitzkrieg in the early war period.

Additionally, since Battleships and Carriers were NOT used (except US escort carriers after entry)in ASW their sub attack rate should be negated by -1 and -2 respectively.

Subs should cost 150 to reflect this change.

For the USSR specifically, the following changes should be made to make this nation more historical.

Country Data

Activation - 5%

Unit Build Data - Soviet Build Limits

HQ - 9

Army = 30

Corps = 60

Unit Cost Data

USSR Corps - 100

Army - 250

Combat Target Data

USSR Corps - 0 Inf Atack and 0 Defense.

Production Delay

USSR Corps 2

Army 5

[n0kn0k]

No need to crosspost in two boards m8

[ev]

Originally posted by Leedsunited40:

To reflect the doctrine of the day ALL nations cept Germany should have -1 negated from their Tank and Air Defense (under Combat Target Data)AND -1 Tank Attack for infantry corps and armor.

This reflects the reaction to blitzkrieg in the early war period.

...it might be easier just to increase the combat values of German Armored Formations. Or to increase their initial experience level, or their initial tech level.

But, on the other hand, German HQ's already have higher ratings than their opponents. Does not this take care of your concern?

[Leedsunited40]

No. We need a historical element and this reflects it.

The Germans weren't so much better - it was that at the onset of war everybody else was behind the times!

[Moonslayer]

Originally posted by Leedsunited40:

The Germans weren't so much better - it was that at the onset of war everybody else was behind the times!

Isn't that pretty much exactly the same thing?

SC2 does pretty much what you are asking anyway in so much as the Germans have more tank groups than the others to begin with and they have the advantage of superior HQs. This advantage is lost later in the war when other countries gain better HQs and more tank groups. The advantage you suggest will result in a permanent deficiency for all others throughout the war.

Your 'fix' would be ahistorical imho.

[arado234]

Leeds i agree with the historical element but how far should we go.If you give russia the ability to build all those units(i know it would take sometime)they would simply overwelm the germans.If you are going to add that to the next patch;perhaps there should be a way for that russia would remain neutral untill attacked.Remember when germany first attacked russia they were treated as liberators & had hitler & the rest of his tyrants had the brains to realise this at minimum russia(from all the books ive read)would have gone into a revolt just like ww1.This would have freed up millons of axis troops to really put the heat on the british.So maybe the amount russia can build somehow reflects that.But you are right about the british forces against the germans in the early years.Especially there ability to fight subs.Remember the destroyer for bases deal between britain and the usa.Sorry to be so long winded.

[Leedsunited40]

Remember, the tank/air defense for the nations in question applies to nations such as Belgium, Poland, Holland, France and Greece that DID not survive the early ear period.

Penalizing the Russians, Italians and British in part IS reflective of history.

The ability of German 'HQ' control was a fact regardless of Armored Effects Modifiers.

EVERY single game on WWII reflects the inability of early war powers - minor and major - to deal, even reomotely, with Germany's Blitzkrieg tactics.

Germany did not beat Poland in three weeks, France in six and Yugoslavia/Greece in four due to massed forces but due pure and simply to the use of Armor and Air in lightning attack!

[Leedsunited40]

The fact that Germany had more Tank Groups is immaterial.

France outnumbered the Wehrmacht in 'tanks' yet it was the they were used that was the detrmining factor; The Germans used them en masse, the French primarily in support of infantry........piecemeal.

Germany 'beat' France not becuase she won great tank battles against the France BUT due to the French infantry's inability to hold back or even stall the German armor.

The Polish had the same problem - the USSR later........

[arado234]

France also had better(heavier tanks than germany).But you are right about the fact that the allies used thier tanks wrong.Also the early russian tanks didnt have radios in them.The commander communicated with his tank group with flags.Do you think what you are saying would reflect that?

[Leedsunited40]

Ideally, I would like to create/add a scipt that permeates the following - mirroring Soviet Early War Unpreparedness and Doctrine:

* Max Army Group attachments through first 18 mos of activation - 4. After - 5.

* Production limits prior to German DoW - limiting the number of Corps/Army that USSR can produce prior to German attack.

ALL Nations should also have a revised Combat Target Data expressing the same early war inabilities versus air and tank - but this would increase as the war progresses and nations 'adjust' to tactics and weapons.

[Edwin P.]

1. Currently there is no scripting method for changing Max Army Group attachments based on time.

2. Neither is there any way to change production limits based on time.

[Leedsunited40]

Thanks - there should be. This is historically what happens with combat experience - at any level!

[ChrisND]

1. A alternative solution would be to give the starting forces inferior rated HQs, and they would have to buy better ones.

2. Lowering Russia's readiness % and raising the % increase from scripts to compensate could help here.