Is researching Intel useful?

[Edwin P.]

Do any of the playtesters have any comments on the usefulness of the new Intel tech in actual game play?

As I recall, each level of this tech increases your research by 1% and penalizes your opponent's research by 1%.

[Colin I]

Apologies if I missed earlier discussions and I am repeating. Seems to me Intel should:

Give a low chance of spotting units outside normal spotting range - chance increased if the unit is operating in occupied territory or close to a partisan. The net effect might be the location of the Bismark or an abnormal distribution of units on a border indicating DoW is imminent or the location of the Rommel HQ. Relevant to this: I always assumed that whilst French partisans weren't very effective in a direct military sense they were extremely useful in keeping the allies informed on the German activities in France.

Perhaps increased Intel leads to an increased probability and combat skill of partisan units.

Increase tech transfer when an enemy is ahead in an area seems a good idea too although in reality I'm not sure how much was really due to Intel - I always assumed it was mostly engineers taking apart and replicating captured gear.

Intel and diplomacy should support each other; not sure of the mechanism though.

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by Edwin P.:

As I recall, each level of this tech increases your research by 1% and penalizes your opponent's research by 1%.

That would be very, very, very powerful in the 1939 scenario : I'd put 5 points in it asap. Basically it would double all your research AND lower the other person's.

I doubt it will have that effect. That's too powerful, no ?

[Edwin P.]

pzgndr - posted December 16, 2005 08:17 PM

Each new level of Intelligence research increases your own research bonus by 1% and decreases your opponent's bonus by 1%. This is in addition to the catch-up bonus you're already familiar with in SC1. That's all the intel tech does.

[SeaMonkey]

I'm not sure, but in light of TJ's comment, won't the research catchup bonus from SC1 still be in effect?

In addition, just because you have 5 chits invested doesn't mean you automatically attain the next level that activates the 1% bonus/penalty.

Is there a max attainment level for this category?

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by Edwin P.:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />pzgndr - posted December 16, 2005 08:17 PM

Each new level of Intelligence research increases your own research bonus by 1% and decreases your opponent's bonus by 1%. This is in addition to the catch-up bonus you're already familiar with in SC1. That's all the intel tech does.

</font>

[Edwin P.]

I don't think its overpowered.

Keep in mind that you must research additional level of Intel Tech, you just can't purchased them (but you have the option to play with that feature). You purchase 1 chit in intel and you have a 5% per turn to achieve Intel Tech Level 1. You might discover it in 1 turn, 10 turns or 30 turns, and you can't research Intel Level 5 until you have discovered Intel Level 1,2, 3 and 4. In SC1 it was not easy to reach Level 5 in any tech.

[Blashy]

Originally posted by TaoJah:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Edwin P.:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />pzgndr - posted December 16, 2005 08:17 PM

Each new level of Intelligence research increases your own research bonus by 1% and decreases your opponent's bonus by 1%. This is in addition to the catch-up bonus you're already familiar with in SC1. That's all the intel tech does.

</font>

[Blashy]

Originally posted by Edwin P.:

I don't think its overpowered.

Keep in mind that you must research additional level of Intel Tech, you just can't purchased them (but you have the option to play with that feature). You purchase 1 chit in intel and you have a 5% per turn to achieve Intel Tech Level 1. You might discover it in 1 turn, 10 turns or 30 turns, and you can't research Intel Level 5 until you have discovered Intel Level 1,2, 3 and 4. In SC1 it was not easy to reach Level 5 in any tech.

You also foget about consumable chits, which were not in SC1. You put five chits, you get 25% chance of getting level 1, once you get it, one chit is consumed, so level 2 is down to 20%, and so on. If a player does not re invest level 3 will be 15, L4 10 and L5 5%.

FYI, consumable chits are a IMHO a MUST have option. They really offer gameplay and strategic thinking.

[Todd Treadway]

From the manual:

"Each new level of Intelligence research increases your own research bonus by 1% and decreases your opponent’s bonus by 1%. When decreasing your opponent’s research bonus, it will only apply on a per country basis within

applicable research categories. New levels of Intelligence do not otherwise increase any production or reinforcement costs."

What does the second-to-last sentence mean? What are "applicable research categories?" And what does "on a per country basis" mean?

Thanks

[Lars]

Think it means if say, UK has Intel 2 and Germany has Intel 2, they cancel each other out.

But if US is at Intel 0 and gets Industrial 1, Germany still gets the 2% boost as far as that tech, if it's researching it.

Or does it just eliminate the catch-up bonus? Anyone?

[Blashy]

It does not eliminate the catch up bonus. Both of them will be added to gether.

So catch up bonus plus any intel levels you have.

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by Lars:

Think it means if say, UK has Intel 2 and Germany has Intel 2, they cancel each other out.

But if US is at Intel 0 and gets Industrial 1, Germany still gets the 2% boost as far as that tech, if it's researching it.

Or does it just eliminate the catch-up bonus? Anyone?

I wanne know this too.

It's always the first research I put a point, it would be nice to know what it actually DOES, lol.

[Lars]

Originally posted by Blashy:

It does not eliminate the catch up bonus. Both of them will be added to gether.

So catch up bonus plus any intel levels you have.

So German would get +3% for Industrial then?

Seems it would be best to get all your allies at the same Intel tech in order to prevent freeloading by the other side off the one guy who didn't go for Intel.

[pzgndr]

When decreasing your opponent’s research bonus, it will only apply on a per country basis within applicable research categories.

What does the second-to-last sentence mean? What are "applicable research categories?" And what does "on a per country basis" mean?

It means what it says.

Seriously, applicable research categories refers to active research only. If you are researching something and your opponent has a tech advantage, there is a base bonus which is THEN adjusted based on the relative intel levels of the two countries considered.

Note that you cannot get less than the regular base chance, only an advantage if possible. And an intel advantage does not provide some marginal chance of a tech advance in areas you do not have a chit invested in - sorry, no free lunch.

Alles klar?

[Lars]

Clear as mud.

So I'm correct that I still get a boost from the US failure to have countered Intel? Doesn't it make some sense then for Axis to research all areas that Allied non-active have a lead in, as they can't really do anything about it?

[pzgndr]

Lars, in your example Germany would get a bonus relative to USA but not UK, and should get it assuming USA has the higher IT level.

Now, one thing I'm not sure about is if say UK has both higher IT L2 and Intel L2 where Germany would be compared against that higher tech but with no intel bonus. With USA at higher IT but not the highest level, but with an intel bonus, it's not clear if the code would apply that more advantageous case where Germany could get +1 or not. This can get complicated, and only Hubert can explain what the code is really doing.

[TaoJah]

I don't understand any of this, lol.

Say I got 3 intel tech and the other person has 1.

And say I already have 1 point in Advanced aircraft and he has none.

And say I got 4 points in researching Advanced aircraft.

Then what ?

And second case : exactly the same as above, except that we both already have 1 point in Advanced aircraft.

Then what ?

[pzgndr]

OK, step through this.

1. Do YOU have a chit invested?

2. Does an opponent have a higher tech level in that area, regardless of whether HE has anything invested currently?

3. Then the standard catchup bonus would apply.

4. Compare intel tech difference. A net positive value would then give YOU an additional bonus.

This really is not intended to be any more complicated than it was in SC1. You get at least the standard research chance plus catchup bonus like you had before if you have a chit invested. In addition, relative intel tech levels are compared and more bonus is possible if YOU have the advantage. That's it.

However, with different countries all having different tech levels, it's possible that some situations may not be clear. It's not clear to me in the example I provided if the code is looping through other possibilities to find a "better deal." But you're definitely getting the standard deal plus a possible increase, never a decrease. Hope this helps. Maybe Hubert can jump in to clarify exactly what happens in the complicated cases.

[CPT Pete]

Sorry, need to bring this one back to life. Do I understand this correctly?

Germany has heavy tanks level 1 and 1 chit invested in heavy tanks.

Russia has heavy tanks level 3.

Because Russia has better tanks and Germany has invested in heavy tank research Germany gets a "catch up" bonus which increases its chances of developing German tanks level 2?

If Germany also invested in Intel, its chances of developing Tanks level 2 is even better?

If Russia's tank level were lower than Germany's, Intel would not increase Germany's chances of developing higher level tanks but would decrease Russia's chances of developing higher level tanks and catching up.

Intel is basically a "catch up" bonus modifier which decreases your opponents ability to catch up to you in areas you have advanced and let's you catch up to your opponents more quickly in areas they have advanced.

Correct?

[Lars]

No, there's a seperate catch up bonus. Intel is basically an additional 1% chance of getting a tech, if not canceled out by the opponent's Intel level.

Would still like some clarification from Hubert on the deal shopping.

[Von Epps]

Doesn't anyone think that the idea of spontaneous spottting of enemy units would be an added depth rendering attribute to the game. I think that the original post referred to this and everyone got off topic.

Aside from the capture and study of enemy equipment and technology, Intel. could, and perhaps should be interpreted more literally, and historically. Finding out that your enemy is massing troops on your border, or discovering that he has left port would add a little more realism to the game.

Just a thought.

[Lars]

This and many other things were discussed for Intel. Seems Hubert has decided to restrict it to just an research advantage.

[Gavrok]

Does Intel give Germans an advantage...ie all allies have to match German tech so as not be disadvatnaged, so eg USA/ UK and Russia must all get chits in this.

However re Germans as long as one allied is underpowered they have a chance to get!

Seems ludicrous that outnumbering opponenet means you are at science disadvantage

G

[Blashy]

Intel and how it works.

Germany has L1 Intel. +1% to all rolls regarding getting tech for Germany.

Now if USA Researches Industry and so does Germany and USA has no Intel, they get -1% per roll for THAT field only.

So if BOTH opposing countries are researching the SAME tech then whatever Intel each side has applies to the other country.

USA researching IT

UK researching LR

Both countries have 0 Intelligence.

Germany has 1 Intelligence and is also researching these fields, so USA and UK both get -1% in LR for UK and IT for USA.

This is how I've come to understand it.