Playing Russia 41-45 scenario and lovin' it

[PanzerMike]

Well the title says it all. I really am having a blast with that scenario. Well done!

I wish the whole of europe could be done on this scale. It feels right, more so than the Fall Weiss scenario in which the room to manoeuvre is too limited IMO.

I also have some wishes/questions:

1- It should not be possible to reinforce units trapped in a pocket. This is really frustrating and not realistic.

2- Units in a pocket should suffer morale or readiness penalties. Pockets fight to the death (no surrendering in the engine I presume?) and should be easier to destroy the longer they are 'eingekesselt'.

3- Why can't I strategically move units in/through occupied Russia?? As long as I have a rail line this should not be a problem, right?

4- Are there any real consequences if Moscow or Leningrad would fall (national morale drops or something?

That's it so far. Kudos for HC and all the others for making a fun game!

[Hubert Cater]

PanzerMike,

Glad to hear you are enjoying the campaign as Kuniworth did a really good job on this one. For questions 1 and 2 these are functions of the game engine and depending on the supply level or how closed the pocket really is it should function as you suspect. For example if units are trapped in a pocket with no HQ or city to draw supply from they should not be able to reinforce. Additionally with low supply their readiness and morale will slowly drop as well.

For 3 and 4 I think it is probably best for Kuniworth to respond as he will know the campaign better.

Hubert

[carverrt]

This scenario has so much potential. I think a lot more will be done with it.

I played it once (so many other scenarios to play) and found the German AI to be very weak. As the Russians, by the end of the first winter I was back at the Polish boarder. I set traps and massacred German armor and then rolled forward with my tanks to push the German infantry west.

The artillery, anti-tank and flack units were all perfect for this level of play.

Good job.

[PanzerMike]

Originally posted by Hubert Cater:

PanzerMike,

Glad to hear you are enjoying the campaign as Kuniworth did a really good job on this one. For questions 1 and 2 these are functions of the game engine and depending on the supply level or how closed the pocket really is it should function as you suspect. For example if units are trapped in a pocket with no HQ or city to draw supply from they should not be able to reinforce. Additionally with low supply their readiness and morale will slowly drop as well.

For 3 and 4 I think it is probably best for Kuniworth to respond as he will know the campaign better.

Hubert

The problem is, that almost all pockets contain a city, because the AI defends cities tenaciously. Even if the pocket contains a city, I feel that reinforcements should not be possible. Perhaps the loss of morale and readiness should be less with a HQ/City, but no reinforcements.

For instance, in my current game I am at the gates of Leningrad, but a city to the southwest contains two strong enemy units and I don't have the strength to take them out. They are hundreds of miles behind the front, and have been there for many weeks. However, they are doing just fine. Probably because of the city.

Shouldn't cities be able to supply units only if they have an undisputed connection (rail or otherwise) to another city of their own side? As far as I can see the way it works now, is that the city is a supply source even if it is totally cut off.

@RobertC I am playing beginner level as the Axis, and the AI is putting up quite a fight. But then again, I really am a beginner with this game

[Hubert Cater]

PanzerMike,

In this case they will be cutoff cities and max reinforcement will naturally be reduced. There is a pretty complex, behind the scenes, supply model in place and not something that is easily changed to force a no reinforcement rule. May not be perfect but from campaign to campaign, large or small, it seems to work out generally well.

Either way I think you'll find that with a little perseverance those pockets will still fall much faster than if they were in full supply.

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by PanzerMike:

3- Why can't I strategically move units in/through occupied Russia?? As long as I have a rail line this should not be a problem, right?

4- Are there any real consequences if Moscow or Leningrad would fall (national morale drops or something?

That's it so far. Kudos for HC and all the others for making a fun game!

Thank you for your kind words. Feel free to come up with more suggestions. I 100% agree that this is the right scale for corps-sized scenarios, hopefully more will follow.

to answer your questions:

3 - Yes you should be able to move, but the cities might not be up to strength. When they reach 5 I think then railroads to that destination works again. Historically one of the absolute key factors on the eastern front was disrupting the enemy's railroad net.

4 - Leningrad - no consequences. Moscow - you will lose supply in all russian cities as a result of losing a vital communication-center.

[PanzerMike]

Maybe I should read the manual more carefully Okay, so only a city of strenth >= 5 is able to function as a rail hub and may thus be a destination for operational movement.

That explains it. However the level of partisan activitiy is pretty high it seems. Hardly a turn passes by without some city being reduced. I know partisans played a major part in the east, but already so much activitity in 1941? Is there a parameter that deals with the level of partisan activity?

I am going to play the death out of this scenario, it really is very good. Maybe I will tinker with it after a while if I feel brave

[Karhu]

I'm enjoying this scenario, though it's not easy... :eek:

One thing though - it seems the supply rules are working like SC2, rather than WaW. I noticed that surrounded Soviet cities were being resupplied by a chain of tiles, rather than by railways. Also, as the Germans I was able to establish a connection with Finland through tiles without any railways being even close.

One other minor point, when I operated the Croatian units back to Croatia (why doesn't it appear on the map, if Slovakia does?) to deal with some partisans, they lost the flag tags on the base of the units.

A great scenario, though. Well done!

[Henri]

I'm an experienced wargamer going back to Afrika Korps, The Russian Canmpaign, Third Reich, and most computer wargames includingt GGs WaW, and this campaign is really fun but...

As the Germans, I find it extremely difficult to maintain an advantage. I did not even get close to Moscow after taking Smolensk but conquered Leningrad in early 1942. But Sevastopol and all other Southern cities except Kiev and Odessa are still in Russian hands in Summer 1942. I have broken through El Alamein, but I do not have enough power to take Alexandria, having lost the Afrika Korps. With the arrival of the Siberia reinforcements and US entry into the war, it looks like my chances of winning are about nil.

My advanced submarines are wiped out from half an ocean away as son as they step outside the port, so my effect on blocking lend-lease are much less than the MPPs I lose building the subs.Whats the point of paying 100 Mpps for a sub when all it does before sinking is to block 14 MPPs from reaching Russia (who has over 300 each turn anyway)?

I am playing at beginner level, without fog of war and without research, thinking that this would make it easier to grasp game and to find the best strategy.

I noticed that throughout the game so far, the Russian MPPs are about equal to that of the Germans (about 300 vs about 325), so the Russians don't seem to have much problem replacing their losses. One big problem is that from November 1941, when snow and mud are not hampering the Germans, it is raining so the Germans are without air support - from November 41 to July 42, the Germans were practically paralyzed except for taking Leningrad and breaking though El alamein (fat good that will do...).

Any suggestions on adjusting parameters to give the Germans a reasonable chance of winning (i.e. taking either Moscow or Stalingrad before Summer 1942 ).

Or am I missing something?...

Stumped,

Henri

[arado234]

Henri if you turn on the fog of war that would help your subs alot in one way.The allies would then have to search for them instead of just sending everything right to where your subs are at.That goes for your ground army also.

I also have played many games of Third Reich and this game gives the russians a much better chance to stay alive.There is no double turn which you know usually spells the end of russia.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

henri is obviously talking about the continent-wide 1941 scenario.

I just played through it as the Russians. My biggest concern is the fragility of the units, esp. tanks when fighting tanks. It was so pathetically easy to knock off any German tank whose flanks were vulnerable and which had even just moderate damage-sic 1 or 2 of my Russian tank units on it and it died, and rebuilding the thing costs the Germans a fortune, while Russia can more easily replace hers.

I would nix the free chits in Russian IW to start off with-typically Russia will max that out before fall '41 rolls around, and with a 3-1 MPP advantage the Germans won't hold the strategic initiative as long as they did historically. The Russian advantage in MPPs should build more slowly, peaking in late summer '42 or so.

Kuni, any reason why Russia has to wait until Spring '43 for artillery?

[Henri]

One problem is that it takes a whole move to reinforce a unit. Let us say a tank unit is down to a strength of 9 after a battle: to bring it to max elite strength, one has to waste a move to bring it to 10, two more moves to bring it to 12, than another move to catch up to the front line before it can fight again. I would guess that the prblem is the same with the 39 campaign.

By that time, the war is already half over!...It seems to me that units should be able to reinforce and move on the same turn (perhaps at the cost of losing one of its two attacks for instance. Or else perhaps make the time per move shorter, like maybe one week or 2?

In this particular scenario, I find it too costly in time to stop to upgrade my units, so I just bring them up to 10 and send them back into battle - I feel I can't afford the time to make them elite. Is it possible to change the time with the editor?

Henri

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by John DiFool the 2nd:

Kuni, any reason why Russia has to wait until Spring '43 for artillery?

Historical reason, the unit-size here is corps or larger. Russian artillery-corps arrives when it did historically. So does the german artillery-unit.