Sealion

[Fartknock3r]

In my game versus axisgeneral, he launched a sealion and was successful, but i also must say, the RN was of some help because of shore bombardment and frightening more amphib transports from coming in. But it still didnt stop it. I had 4 corps and an army who were entrenched max along with an AF and a bomber. So, does anyone have advice on how to stop it? In other games i dont want to be pinned down in egypt fighting tooth and nail to survive. Why was my defence flawed?

Lets talk Sealion

Fartknock3r

[Night]

The real key I would say is being able to detect the Amphib transports before they land their troops, to do this you will have to ethier have a large spotting range with air craft or send the RN/CN to scout. It is a viable solution since you only have a limited amount of area to scout, Transports are limited to being made in ports.

Without being able to see the enemy ports that he plans to use, the RN is vastly impotent against a Sealion due to the fact that amphip transports can move and unload on the same turn.

Use your troops to surround london, and only leave a corps in each other city. Only the capital really matters and if you can stop the Axis from taking London and say 1 other city for a few turns, you can possibly turn it into an attrition war until Russia get's involved, then you might actually be in good shape since the Germans will be bleeding troops and have Airfleets/HQs tied down in England.

Unconventional Suggestion: Use your ships as a physical shield around the shores of places you don't wish the enemy to land. Set it up so he can only land in a place of your choosing where you might be able to turn the tables on him, as long as you have enough ships left and dont fear air attack, as a bonus if he sends a transport out of his spotting range it might have surprise contact with a battleship and take serious damage and thus jepordize the entire invasion.

[Fartknock3r]

Yes, the whole time i had naval units in blocking positions. But i found my wrong doing. I garrisoned manchester, so he was able to take london in 2 turns. USSR didnt even join in my game. I think because manchester fell around march 1941. It was a seriously exciting sealion, war in the air, water, and land. I had long range air lvl 2 by the time france Fell, applied to both my AF, bomber, and my 2 carriers, along with lvl 1 advanced aircraft and lvl 1 heavy bombers. I already knew a sealion was coming, but i didnt know he would we able to kill my 5 troops, each with level 1 motorization, level 1 infantry weapons, and level 1 anti tanks. I had a canadian corps and 2 american armies coming, if i had sent them sooner, it wouldve been a long bloody stalemate. I sunk most of his fleet, and still have almost all of my RN in canada and USA waiting to strike back. im thinking of sending them to the med and deal with those pesky italians pinning egypt down.

Edit- woot! im happy 2 say both my carriers- with there upgrades- survived! OH YA, but i dont have any mmp's to reinforce them! damn you convoys!

[Sombra]

The german fleet is quite strong in SC2 . Though sending royal navy scouts will be a suicide mission.

As you pointed out the homefleet is quite helpless against the amphib transports in the moment.

I you defend in trhe beginning only the London area and the axisplayer launches a serious sealion 2 HQs heavy troops and he captures Manchester right away. How long the troops in an around London will be able to survive?

@Fastknockr: right now I am a "victim" of a sealion (but I ahd even fewer troops home then you my mistake) Still, even with more troops what can the GB player do? In my case Rusia was preparing aready for war but winter will come soon. Germany is strong enough to fend Rusia off for a few turns especially in winter . Egypt was taken earlier. OK the US will join sooner but with the UK resources... I will see how my game ends.

[Fartknock3r]

Goog luck to you Sombra! I was able to delay his victory for about 4 months, but he was preparing a Long time before that, ever since france fell! He didnt conquer any neutrals, he said he wanted Nuetral majors to remain well.. neutral! Luckily i have good russian advantages.(which im not gonna say here!) Bit i think im still pretty tough in egypt. But hes going to attack egypt with all his heavy tanks and infantry, but if i cant reinforce, what am i to do? If he pins me down its up to the USA i guess.

[Sombra]

@Fartknock3r Well, good luck to you, too

Seems you have fun .

Somehow I expect we will see much more sealions then in SC1

[Fartknock3r]

Heh, tell me about it. But that makes the game more interesting, challenging, and better- fun!

[Blashy]

Sealions will stop the minute people start to reinforce UK, which is what UK did historically. By the fall of France a Sealion vs. UK should be disaster, meaning they might take it, but they'll be unprepared for the Massive US/USSR MPPs.

USA can do a D-Day almost 2 years early.

You'll see, you'll find a way to make Sealion very unattractive. I did.

[Sombra]

@Balshy : 4 Corps, an army, LF, Bomber , Ships how much more you will put on GB to stop a sealion? What kind of forces do you use to defend?

What about a late sealion when UDSSR is already gearing up for war? If I dont care about US war entry anyway and conquer minors beforehand, fending of the UDSSR for a little time at your border shouldn´t be to hard.

We will see what happens in the near future with more MP games played. I think players are still weary from sealions in SC1 whre it was really a risk. But now in MP games in SC2 the number of Sealions will increase quite a lot, thats my guess at least.

[ April 24, 2006, 12:56 AM: Message edited by: Sombra ]

[Fartknock3r]

If i kept my forces around london, and only a corps garrison in manchster and edinburgh, like you said i think i couldve successfully defended it. He sent a tank group, 3 armies, and a hq along with paratroopers along with attacks from luftwaffe. It shouldve been a stalemate. I didnt know what happened. Luckily, i have a few surprise strategies up my sleeve for Axisgeneral. I'll make him wish he never used a sealion strategy

But i must admit, the Royal Navy was a big help.

Edit- but sombra, you have to account for the upgrades, but i say our upgrades were pretty even.

[Sombra]

Lets say time will tell. Right now as the game stands it not though important anymore for the axis to have a knockout start for barbarossa.

The rusian troops will hide anyway deep inside the UDSSR. You can´t get them anyway with a surprise attack.

Leaving the Axis with many many ground troops at the beginning of Barbarossa. As soon as you have 2 HQs and enough ground troops in GB, IMHO the war for England is decided.

[Fartknock3r]

Hey sombra, whats your icq number? lets make up some nice anti-sealion strategies to make those axis players pay!

My icq:328-031-682

[Fartknock3r]

Perhaps if you expect a sealion, you should prepare USSR and USA for immediate war, instead of conducting research. Next time i expect a sealion i'll have american transports awaiting in the atlantic for there decleration of war!

[Sombra]

@Fartknockr : MY ICQ number is 336-345-303. Unfortunatly I am at work right now but lurking in the forum (SC2 is addictive)

Moving ships /transports before a nation is at war is considered cheese right now in MP.Otherwise good defense against sealion is simply to put american transports around GB for example . Use them for sub spotting etc. Please take a look at the AARs from Terif vs Hellraisr

If I know you only guarding against sealion you sure can stop it but it will cost you in diplomacy /war forEgypt / research.

[Fartknock3r]

Hehe, you must live far away from me! its about 2:00 AM here. (yes SC-2 is very addictive!) As for the american transports, like the axis will ever find em!

Edit- but if the axis is conducting a sealion, the USA will join soon anyway. So why not take advantage of the situation? Its not cheesy, its called being smart.

[ April 24, 2006, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: Fartknock3r ]

[Axis_General]

It was an exellent game and I didnt think i would be able to pull it off. You had UK well defended in my opinion but had the RN split up on both sides. When I sent the Kreigsmarine in its suicide attack on the E side of the Isle it drew away RN from the West Side which is where my invasion force was waiting. I got lucky with getting level 2 Long Range Air so I saw where most of your forces where deployed. Once I landed the outcome was sealed since Level 2 Panzers and Level 2 Inf would take UK.

It was 2nd game in a row I took UK against someone but you put up a stiff fight for it! Last player only had one unit defending the whole Island LOL.

I think the only way to stop sealion is to bring back almost the whole UK fleet back to UK and scout and shore bombard the Axis ports. Maybe even Operational move of HQ from afrika to shore up Air/grround defense of UK.

[Blashy]

You take UK, but now you have USA and USSR in the war and no plunder from UK who is STILL in the War.

And you have to use 3 troops to man the Island.

Pretty dire siuation.

[Axis_General]

Not really since Russia only 56% ready. Even if axis cant hold UK it delays 2nd front and allow enough time to deal with stalin.

[Blashy]

Russia climbs permanently once you are on UK Island and so will USA.

[Terif]

For USA this is correct, they will join after a few turns with axis units around London or Manchester.

P.S. would be better for the next patch to include Edinburgh too, since otherwise this will sooner or later leed to the same tactic as in SC 1 to just take northern England and then after destroying the defenders in a last attack take Manchester and London .

But USSR readiness only increases once. As far as I can see there is only one script, and that is a one time event (25% chance, checked till it triggered), not reoccuring (so a per turn increase should be added and same as for US - Edinburgh should better be included as condition position too):

; Axis land units in England resulting in a

; 30-35% increase in Soviet activation towards Allies:

{

#NAME= Sealion #2 (USSR->Allies)

#POPUP=

#FLAG= 1

#TYPE= 1

#COUNTRY_ID= 4

#TRIGGER= 25

#DATE= 1940/01/01

; 30-35% activation increase towards Allies

#ACTIVATION= [30,35] [2]

; Axis land 1-2 units in the UK within 1-2 tiles of London OR

#CONDITION_POSITION= 64,15 [1,2] [1,2] [1]

; Axis land 1-2 units in the UK within 1 tile of Manchester

#CONDITION_POSITION= 61,13 [1,1] [1,2] [1]

}

[Sombra]

Terif you spoil the fun of a good sealion. Reoccuring events should give you certain window of opportunity to carry out a sealion as viable tactic.

[Terif]

Sealion is too easy for Axis - so at least it should bring in USA and Russia as according to Blashy it was originally planed .

[Desert Dave]

Sealion is too easy for Axis...

For you,

Mein Freund,

For you, LOL,

Many things seem so very easy, ah,

Playing... EITHER side.

Sea Lion accomplished,

Sea Lion defeated.

Machts nichts.

Though,

You haven't yet played the best,

Because there is ALWAYS

Some somebody out there

Just... leaning against

A street lamp,

Die Strassenlaterne,

Swinging a little key

Which glints in abounding night,

Yep, a skeleton-head key

Which opens everything

Thought to be - locked, it's

A beat, and feral kind of Cat,

Indolently... waiting,

Waiting.

I would say... game will be

A bit better balanced

In many ways

In fact, then

First patch

Shall be released. :cool:

[Fartknock3r]

Yup it was fun axisgeneral! But admit it, if i had those 2 US armies and that canadian corps on the isle it would've been a stalemate. And dont think im goin gto give up in egypt either! Your in for a wild game, on east and west

[Fartknock3r]

I always knew you were going to sealion, ever since the fall of france, it was just a feeling. Thats why i kept on bombing and bombarding brest and its port. I just didnt think your tank could do so much damage. BTW just warning you i had the WHOLE RN escape! Along with those 2 carriers you tried to kill!