Retributar Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Good Point!!!, John DiFool the 2nd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted November 15, 2006 Author Share Posted November 15, 2006 V1.05 - changed FoW for Land units spotting units at sea. Now all land units, with the exception of Bombers, will spot Naval units at 1/2 their current spotting range, i.e. AF spotting range might already be reduced due to weather effects etc., all other spotting remains the same... should make the "cat and mouse" (Desert Dave) naval game a bit more interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Well Edwin, that puts us halfway there. Maybe a little shove from the forum gets the adoption of the adjacent tile spotting rule for land units. The more I think about it, I come up with only enhancements to gameplay with this reduced land unit spotting. Really brings air recon to the forefront. Might just serve to get them spread out a little more and not so concentrated into those devastating groups. Now you would need some infrastructure tech to reduce their(AFs&Bmbrs) operative moves(MPP cost) around the map to take advantage of that very important recon aspect. As it comes to mind, wasn't the recon role one of the first most important uses of aircraft, like balloons in the Civil War. Think about it, they haven't lost much in that mission's importance even today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Yep. WWI. Was supposed to make war impossible when you could see what the other side was doing. The Wright Brothers might have been a little off on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 While were on the subject of 'Spotting', Naval vessels should have a spotting range of '2' at sea in 'Good-Weather' & a Spotting Range of '1' in Bad-Weather...as well as a spotting range of '1' in-land!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Originally posted by Retributar: While were on the subject of 'Spotting', Naval vessels should have a spotting range of '2' at sea in 'Good-Weather' & a Spotting Range of '1' in Bad-Weather...as well as a spotting range of '1' in-land!. They do have a spotting range of 1 in land. A tile is many kilometers square, you don't see that far with the naked eye and that's pretty much all they had back then. Also, the earth is round and when your at sea you can see this effect, it will affect your range of sight... by reducing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFL Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I think the fleets shouldn't see more than one square at least historically for the reason Blashy mentioned; earth is round. Historically Air Craft carriers could have longer spotting range, say 2 in bad weather and 3 or 4 in good at sea, and maybe range 2 for land? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 TFL However i would think that they would put up air patrols, which can see just a little further than line of sight from the ship!. In bad weather, those air patrols would not be up, therefore a reduction of 50% sighting range or Intel!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 In bad weather, planes were not sent out. So same range as ships is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 It just occured to me that in very-bad weather, there should be no-way to spot a fleet at all, unless your fleet run's into it!. Ever watch the show 'Tora Tora Tora!',...that Japanese fleet heading toward's Midway, was untrackable in the Storm!. Whynot we incorporate this feature into SC2???. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted November 18, 2006 Author Share Posted November 18, 2006 Excellent idea, Retributar Naval Unit Spotting: Very Stormy Weather - 0 Tiles - unless you sail directly into the enemy naval unit you pass him by without realizing he was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 This didn't just happen in stormy weather but in perfect conditions, ie. two ship's passing in the night. Once again, "The Search" has commandeered a couple more forum members. How much longer must we wait to incorporate the true FoW aspects of the naval theater? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arado234 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Let us not forget radar.Allied patrol boats could pick up uboats at night.Have to factor that in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted November 19, 2006 Author Share Posted November 19, 2006 True, but radar on patrol boats was line of sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Correct me if im off-track, but wouldn't Radar be effective when the Sub was nearer the surface and especially if the sub was moving, verses staying still while being deeply submerged?. So if the sub was deeply submerged & sitting still, would Radar still be able to effectively identify it???. We need to hear from a Sub-Marine Sub-Mariner to get a real truthful answer to this question!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 a234, I believe you are talking about the success of Allied aircraft detecting U-boats with radar, which was quite widespread. I'm sure the radar of surface vessels could be successful in the proper circumstances, but would be a much rarer occurrence. Remember also that U-boats were equipped with radar sensing devices allowing them to detect a radar search and hopeful avoid a confrontation. Not saying it shouldn't be considered, but the dynamics of the counter-measures IMO offset the usage, at least by surface vessels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 WW2 Subs could not dive deep, a plane in the air could VISUALLY spot it even if submerged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted November 19, 2006 Author Share Posted November 19, 2006 True, and there-in lies the value of Long Range Research, Bombers and Carriers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Originally posted by Blashy: WW2 Subs could not dive deep, a plane in the air could VISUALLY spot it even if submerged. Only if it stayed shallow. Even then, you had to be pretty lucky to spot it. btw, German boats went down 600 ft. More than deep enough. The problem lies if you're operating in shallow water in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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