Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I just played a few games against the Allied AI.. german Version 1.01, Fall Weiss on Expert/+0. It´s a pretty game and it makes way more fun than plain vanilla SC2. But there are two things I don`t understand.. or they appear strange to me. (1) Efficiency levels in Scandinavia I play Axis. I started Barbarossa and take Leningrad. Finnland joins, Norway has been conquered earlier, and I bring Sweden in via Diplomacy. All links are established and no partisans are around. After a few turn Finnland is at efficiency 100%, as well as Sweden. Norway goes to 80&. What I don`t understand: Narvik and the attached Mine remain at 50%, but the neraby port goes to 80%. Same applies to Lulea and the nearby mines... some of the remain at 50%. All these are linked via Railroads, so they should be at 80% or 100%.. right? Is that wanted or a bug? If it is wanted: then why is the Narvik port at 80% while the city is at 50%? (2) German U-Boat diving marathon Just imagine the following situation: It is mid 1944 and I have a german U-Boat north of the Brest port (58,22). It has advanced subs level 4 and 5 experience medals, strength 15. England is completely filled up with Allied Air.. at least 6 Strat Bomber (2 attackes), 4 Tac Bombers and 5+ Air Fleets. All of a sudden most of them attack the U-Boat. In most cases the U-Boat dives, but even in those cases where it doesn`t dive, it doesn`t take damage (think it lost one strength point in 5+ attacks). Everytime it dives, it move two hexes to the north east.. and after 7-8 times diving it ended up west of Denmark (72,16). I think that`s quite strange.. (a) during the allied turn it moves further than it moves in an own turn ( Although the Allied planes are quite developd, the U-Boat doesn`t take damage even in cases when it doesn`t dive © why does a german sub always evade to the northeast? I think it should randomly move into any direction.. I made the same observation on other places, not only in the english channel. I had a pair of german subs northwest of Ireland to raid the Allied convoy lanes, and they both ended up around the Shetland Isles.. and didn`t take damage. [ December 10, 2007, 05:26 AM: Message edited by: Hyazinth von Strachwitz ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timskorn Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I was thinking that a diving sub should lose something in the process, whether it's supply, morale, organization, a strength point or a combination of some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 Makes sense... not necessarily a strength point, but something.. to me the current model is a bit strange. Or another solution: once a sub has dived already a certain number of times, it must not dive again.. Idea: number of maximum dives per turn is linked to the tech level.. as soon as this number is reached, it must not dive again. [ December 10, 2007, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: Hyazinth von Strachwitz ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 1. Villages max out at strength 5 no matter the supply level or if they are connected by rail, ports do not have this restriction, and the reason the mine around Narvik only goes to 5 is that it is not actually connected by rail... which maybe it should be and I can look into correcting this. 2. The sub behaviour is pretty much expected with the numbers you gave, i.e. it is very likely to dive for each attack at Level-4 and take minimal damage with 5 experience medals. I can take a look at the dive direction and perhaps make it more random. Thanks, Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 Thx.. much appreciated. And concerning the subs: I understand what you say, these numbers are right.. but this is exactly the point: is this the right model? I think Timskorn has made a very good point, and I think there should be at least some negative impact on the sub itself. [ December 10, 2007, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: Hyazinth von Strachwitz ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Why? At Level 4 with five experience, it should be a tough little bugger. You need to turn FOW off and see what the Destroyers and Carriers were doing. Funny they didn't get vectored in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 @ Lars: they all were watching the fish swimming by on the bottom of the sea around England... by that time the UK didn`t have a single surface ship left. But coming back to your question: I find it hard to understand that a sub which does not dive doesn´t take damage.. or let`s say almost no damage.. Anyway: if Hubert says the model is fine, I`m okay with it.. just wanted to show you guys something is (I believe) is quite strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Well, just what did you expect the poor AI to do then? Think the only one that really had a shot at dishing it out is the Tac Air. Bomber might kinda need the ASW upgrade too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scook Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Air was so devastating to subs, once they go down, they didnt come back up for a long time, either voluntarily or not. I would propose once a sub successfully evades an air attack is is marked 'Silent' and cannot be further air attacked. That would do 1) The sub will not raid the convoys that turn, 2) have the AI use all that air for something else (pound France and Germany). The scale is not perfect, but air suppression was huge in WWII. As for part one, I vote yes on the mine being connected to the railway system. It would make sense to load up railcars that far north than to truck it to the port. Besides, that does make Leningrad that much more key to both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhu Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Originally posted by Hubert Cater: 1. Villages max out at strength 5 no matter the supply level or if they are connected by rail, ports do not have this restriction, and the reason the mine around Narvik only goes to 5 is that it is not actually connected by rail... which maybe it should be and I can look into correcting this. Hubert, There was a railway from Narvik to Lulea at the time, though there was no road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Karhu, I have a railway running from Narvik to Lulea but just forgot to connect that mine right next to Narvik as well. EDIT: The road was simply added for gameplay reasons. [ December 10, 2007, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Hubert Cater ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Hubert, thanks for your quick reaction. I think that is what makes the game unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Originally posted by Timskorn: I was thinking that a diving sub should lose something in the process, whether it's supply, morale, organization, a strength point or a combination of some. Not really, being an ex submarine nothing is better for morale than evading the enemy. You would be surprised how everyone got pumped after we got away from being detected. And diving a sub uses barely any resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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