Tactics discussion: Thick fog at night

[ElGuapo]

Played a QB last night in the above conditions. I've never played with such horrible LOS before (it was a random setting), and made some mistakes.

Most notably, I was America with 44 squads, long range TDs, and a few support vehicles. My opponent had, of course, German inf and vehicles, including a SMG platoon, a Security squad, and some rifle platoons.

I lost this engagement, so obviously I did something wrong. Let me analyze myself before the rabid packs jump in.

I started by running my platoons into hiding positions behind hills and into buildings just shy of the VLs. I had the armor in a column with two scout vehicles to prevent flanking. I think this strategy, however, was more suited to a better LOS condition. You would not BELIEVE how bad LOS was. 30m at best, which meant when I tried to destroy buildings with HE from armor, they were 30m away from Shreks, with appreciable results. All my armor was taken out by close assult infantry early because I closed with my armor. I saw no way around this at the time, as I needed to get those squads out of the buildings and could not see rushing SMG squads with rifle squads. Also, the 44 squads were worthless, becasue they could not engage at distance, thus had to close with the more powerful German squads and were summarily chewed up at ranges of 20-40m.

Rethinking it, I would have done the same deployment, but sat tight the ENTIRE game and moved my armor way out into the open where no troops were at and let it sit there. Then I would have simply waited until the last few turns and rushed in, hoping the AI would give me the win with overwhelming assets on top of the VLs.

What else can be done in split pea soup at night? Anyone else have a suggestion? The obvious one is to play the Germans with SMG squads, but other than this, what can be done as Allies when you have units best suited to longer LOS fighting?

Curious,

Guap

[xerxes]

Given that visibility, you are at a huge disadvantage against german smg (obvious). The only thing I could see to do is to flank their position with ALL of your infantry and armor and hit one portion of the german line with everything at once. Then backoff, flank and hit from another angle. The LOS makes flanking exceptionally easy.

Flamers would be really nice in such an assault. Course you didn't know the weather.

-marc

[Berlichtingen]

To use your armor in that situation, you have to lead with infantry... otherwise, the German infantry will eat you alive. Also, sitting in the open won't work because infantry will have no trouble sneaking up on your armor and killing them anyway

[SGTHenry]

Yes you must lead your armour with infantry and scout scout scout. Then try to out flank them. I know it had to be tough with such poor LOS.

[Redwolf]

Around 30 meters must be night and thick fog (27m).

Observations:

- Always spot with infantry. Flank security with vehicles is bad, they see worse

If you have 12 squads against Volksgrenadier SMG, overrun them, ASAP. If you are below 15m, it isn't shooting, but fistfight anymore and you have the 12 man squads abainst 8 men squads. You infantry has to move, though, which is a disadvantage in itself.

The M3A1 and M5A1 halftracks with two MGs, one of them .50cal are excellent in such a battle, they route infantry quickly and the opponent won't have time to shoot Panzerfausts.

Another idea is my pet combo of Stuart Kangaroo and flamethrower team. Or generally, have a strong short-rang unit in an APC and rush it to engagements. An M8 HMC will be good as well, rush into los, shoot, but iss reverse command out of LOS is already given, so that at no time in the turn any other enemy unit but the one you will shoot at will have LOS to it. Same for Wasp etc.

A Sherman tank might be nice as well, since you should be able to keep it out of enemy LOS and it is quick enough with gun and three MGs to hit appearing units quickly.

Asault boats may be useful as well, but I don't see how.

What kind of vehicles did your opponent have?

[Joerg]

I just finished a nigt/fog QB, too, and I barely succeeded (well, it was a ceasefire, but I held the flags and the game was decided at this time).

I did some flanking that proved very successful, although the main force still attacked frontally. Remember that your opponent can't see anything as well.

So it's easier to distract him with a few units. Sneak with the flanking force, make a lot of noise (run, drive fast) with small reserves elsewhere. Maybe your opponent will rush his reserves, give away his position or counterattack. That's exactly what you want.

If all fails, well, you did buy some heavy artillery, did you ? Target suspected positions early and move your aim before the guns actually fire.

This has worked for me.

Joerg

[ElGuapo]

You see, that's the point. Teh weatehr/time of day settings were random, so I bought stuff for longer LOS engagements. I DID buy some heavy arty. 180 mm, if I remember right (it was over 150 I know.)

The problem was that I had range units (two TDs, a Stuart, M8 Greyhounds). My opponent had similar stuff, A Stug, A few PZ IVs, etc, ACs, etc. But his SMG superiority and proximity to the flags made rushing in with 44 squads very pricey. All of my AFVs had to get in to 30m range to fire at anything.

Thus my original comment about pulling back and waiting the game out until the very end.

[Lars]

Find your opponent with the infantry, then rush in the armor to clear him out (quick turrets are a plus).

Keep a reserve of armor to outflank his supporting armor.

Repeat as necessary.

Of course, with such limited LOS, these battles always turn into tense little knife fights.

Had one PBEM QB with all armor, at night, in the fog. What a riot.

[Dschugaschwili]

I've just won a night and fog (not thick fog, so visibility was about 50m) battle with regular british troops against veteran Fallschirmjägers in a meeting engagement (auto purchase and random weather). The thing I noticed in this game is that the first shot wins. So rush the flags and sit it out there. If your troops are stationary, they will spot the enemy faster than they are spotted, and the first few shots will be fired unspotted. I'm under the impression that the moral effects of being fired at are worse if the shooter is unknown. Most likely you will pin/rout the advancing enemy squads before they spot you unless perhaps they are coming from several directions and in much greater numbers. But I do think that the "rush and hold" strategy generally works very well with very low visibility.

Dschugaschwili

[PiggDogg]

Dschugaschwili,

You are setting forth the James 'Pete' Longstreet (&, for that matter, other esteemed generals) school of war: strategic offense and tactical defense. Indeed, in most situations (even long visibility battles) it better to rush into covering terrain that dominates the VLs & then hold while letting the enemy come to you.

Of course in these situations, the person who is forced into the tactical offensive may know where you are & he may then have big arty (105 mm & larger) pay you a visit. In that case where the big arty might decimate you, you had better get out of the way of that big arty.

Further, it is somewhat unusual for regular Brit infantry to defeat veteran German Fallshirmjagers. I suspect that the Brits had a substantial numerical and/or terrain advantage. Additionally, I suspect that the Germans made some tactical mistakes.

Cheers, Richard

[PiggDogg]

Dschugaschwili,

Oops, sorry I forgot this.

You must have done quite a bit right also. Congratulations.

Cheers, Richard