BeauCoupDinkyDau Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Question: In reguards to the MP40: I have seen both in fiction and non-fiction stills and films this SMG being held and operaterd in two diffrent positions. One is to grip the pistol grip and the magazine, the other is to grip the pistol grip and then support the weapon from underneath between the mag and the trigger guard (much like holding an Uzi). My question is which way did the German military instruct it's troops to use this SMG, and which way was applied most often by the men in the field? (I normally see them holding the mag, not supporting from below) I'm just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Johnson-- Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 I too see them always holding the magazine. I'd guess the steel construction made the magazine, sturdy and cool, so it wasn't a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 I would suppose that holding the magazine housing - rather than the mag itself - would be more correct, but there is the matter of that big eject button on the housing, isn't there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Having handled one once, many years ago, I recall a textured area aft of the magazine housing and in front of the trigger guard that one was apparently intended to hold the weapon by with the left hand while firing the MP. IIRC the magazine housing could be held comfortably also, as long as you didn't inadvertently eject the magazine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by gunnergoz: Having handled one once, many years ago, I recall a textured area aft of the magazine housing and in front of the trigger guard that one was apparently intended to hold the weapon by with the left hand while firing the MP. IIRC the magazine housing could be held comfortably also, as long as you didn't inadvertently eject the magazine!<hr></blockquote> that's right, too - but you could only do that if the stock was extended, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Jester: This is one subject which I can speak with authority on. The MP-40 works most effectively either fired while using the stock or while grasping the magazine well area with one's off hand. If the stock happens to be folded, then one can go for a palm up grip behind the magazine well, as the stock would tend to get in the way of the other grip style. Hitting the magazine release is not much a problem, it takes a positive push of the catch to affect a release and the magazine tends to stay put until deliberately pulled from the well. Of course, skill plays a part in this, but it's generally not an issue, given enough experience and training time on the weapon. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauCoupDinkyDau Posted January 21, 2002 Author Share Posted January 21, 2002 Thanks Lee. Do you know if the Germans instructed their men to operate the weapon in this fashon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 I'm not sure what the official training policy on this was, but I would expect that the soldiers were trained to transition from the stock to the grip on the magazine well when the fighting got in close. That is the best grip in most situations when fighting in close quarters. The MP-40 is very maneuverable and controllable when held this way and you can lay down very precise fire with it at close range. The recoil also doesn't present a major obstacle to accurate lengthy bursts, given enough skill. All in all, it's a wonderful weapon. And it's especially effective under 100 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 I recall ( from very VERY distant memory) that smgs are more likely to misfire if grasped by the magazine itself. Transferring all that recoil energy back to the feed mechanism. This was a concern with the Sten and I believe the G.I.'s grease-gun too. Only problem is the magazine is placed in the ideal position for a handle and it's hard to train the user to not grab it. The Sten was given a hand grab around the barrel, the Thompson had a wooden grip (sometimes with a handle). The MP40 and Grease Gun I guess you're on your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 I happen to have before me the original Wehrmacht document D167/1 (25.9.1942), the german operating instructions for the MP-40 (I knew it would be of use some day). I am doing a translation-on-the-fly: To quote from page 12, C. "Handling of the weapon" I. (Nr. 17) "basics of handling", lit. c): "When firing the weapon, the right hand holds the trigger assembly grip with the index finger at the trigger. The left hand holds the weapon at the magazine housing, not at the magazine. When firing prone, the magazine may be used as a rest." The grip of the left hand on the housing and not the magazine itself is then emphasized again on p.13, C.IV. (Nr.20) (readying for firing). This completes your order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Outstanding stuff as always Markuss. Now, about original WW II 1:25,000 scale maps of Latvia/Lithuania... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 It seems M Hofbauer has even found the very document showing that the Germans trained their soldiers to use the MP-40 as I have said. Good work. Yes, the MP-40 should be held on the magazine well, not the mag itself. You wouldn't want to transfer any movement in the magazine up into the feeding mechanism. That would generally apply to any any magazine-fed machine gun, be it submachine gun, assault rifle, machine rifle, LMG, etc. This isn't a problem at all, though, as there is plenty of room on the MP-40's magazine well to hold the gun quite firmly. And as I said, it handles very well when held in this way, whether you are using the stock or not. I think it has the best handling characteristics of any of the submachine guns I've used thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauCoupDinkyDau Posted February 15, 2002 Author Share Posted February 15, 2002 Originally posted by M Hofbauer: This completes your order Man! Ask a question on the CM forum and you get answers!! :eek: Good job MH!! :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 The same magazine housing grip setup was duplicated with the MP43/44 assault rifle. The difference is that you could hold the barrel vent guard with your left hand as an alternate position. However! That grip is stamped steel and conducts heat from the barrel quite quickly. I would not recommend handling it in this way for very long Burst firing a full mag at 100 deg day didn't seem to be much of a problem, but it certainly was warm! If I had ripped through the mag or another one after I can imagine this being almost impossible to hold. The later grip designs of the AK-47, M-16, FN, and G3 were not steel for a reason Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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