The mod i would like to see!

[haido]

I would like a modification where the Infantry units actually show their real size of men!

If their is an infantry unit with 20 men i do not want to see 3 men on the screen.

I think you know what i mean.

[Juju]

Yah, we know what you mean. It has been discussed to death. It can't be modded. And it's not gonna happen.

Imagine a whole battallion, depicting each and every man on screen. Firstly, your machine wouldn't run anymore, no matter how good. Also you wouldn't be able to see the map anymore for the sheer number of soldiers.

[MrNoobie]

man i can picture that its going to be chaotic and very very very choppy

[Pvt. Ryan]

But just think how much more fun the Sturmtiger would be!

[haido]

Of course this must be possible.

It can't really be taking upp that much amount of CPU.

Just look at some other games.

For example Medieval Total War (Though it uses sprites).

I think its fully possible

[Captain Wacky]

It's not, BTS has said so on numerous occasions. Many scenarios already run slow when portraying more than a batallion of men plus tanks. Now take that batallion of men and multiply the number of soldier models by 3 or 4 per your idea. I doubt if the game would run on even the fastest computers.

[Sitzkrieg]

Originally posted by haido:

Of course this must be possible.

It can't really be taking upp that much amount of CPU.

Just look at some other games.

For example Medieval Total War (Though it uses sprites).

I think its fully possible

With the current game engine, no. The work on this engine started in 1998 or 1999, when computers were not nearly as powerful as they are now so some abstractions were made. 1 "man" equaling 3 in a squad was one of those abstractions for performance considerations.

Perhaps in the engine rewrite for CM3, whatever and whenever that might be. That plus taking into consideration what the "average" computer's performance will be at that time, not the "bleeding edge" performance of an FPS or hardcore gamers machine.

Also, unit data and 3D models cannot be modded in any way (added, deleted or changed) as they are locked away in the EXE. Only the graphical textures (BMPs) that wrap around the 3D models and sound files can be modded. These only change the appearance of a unit or the sound something makes but do not alter performance in any way.

Keith

[ October 12, 2002, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: sitzkrieg ]

[Rob Murray]

They're right! Take a battle scenario like CMBO's Totalize . I bet most computers would probably crash trying to display every single man. It's huge.

[Mud]

Haido --

Not only does MTW use sprites (which would break away from CM's textured-model approach and likely inflict anguish upon modders), but it pretty much locks the units into pretty tight formations, and does not appear to model individual soldiers that much (e.g. archers in the /last/ row of the furthest-back group of archers can die from their own friendly fire... because it's abstracted to the point of "an archer died", not "that archer died").

Lock-step formations makes some sense for MTW-style battles. It does not make sense in any game which features artillery and machineguns, so BFC could not reasonably take that shortcut -- they'd need to individually track everybody's location, and draw them accordingly, without making the UI into a quagmire (organizing and selecting units... Unless MTW changed dramatically from STW, in that game, you only need to worry about directly controlling some 16 units in a battle. A single CM battalion might have, say, 3 companies of 3 platoons each, each of 3-4 squads, which might be split into 2 half-squads each. The squads might also have 9-12 men or so. That's a lot of men to draw, and more importantly, a lot of units which the player must organize and control (again a diff from medieval-style chaotic melees and modern warfare: you can't just commit troops and stand back and watch until the confusion dies down)... so the UI needs to be very good at showing who belongs to what unit and so forth, which becomes difficult when more men are shown. It needs to be much better at that than, oh, Shogun:TW.

An additional note -- if BFC did draw individual soldiers, you'd most likely hear pleas to ask to be able to give orders to them... *shudder*. As it is, unit portrayal is done down to the point where control is possible, and some information is conveyed (e.g. a depleted squad might show only one or two men instead of three).

(Added:

On a lighter note, be warned that your opponents may try to take advantage of higher-density armor from even higher-res textures... )

[ October 13, 2002, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: Mud ]

[prime^]

If anyones ever played Warhammer 40000 (I dont play it anymore, but would love to see a computer version), i reckon this game engine would be perfect for that game, I'd love to see it converted.