bab Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 A bit of offtopic, but I hope to find the experts who are able to explain to me HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN? http://www.szanalmas.hu/diab/tank/1l2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang_Otto Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 Messed up shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headshot Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 If that's an Arab AFV (BMP maybe?) it could have been deliberately wrecked by the Israelis before leaving the battlefield(Egyptian or Golan Front 1973 maybe?) Just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bab Posted December 22, 2002 Author Share Posted December 22, 2002 Originally posted by Headshot: If that's an Arab AFV (BMP maybe?) it could have been deliberately wrecked by the Israelis before leaving the battlefield(Egyptian or Golan Front 1973 maybe?) Just a guess.With a "LIFT HERE" sign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headshot Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 Okay let me try to get out of this--The Israelis captured it intact and carted it off for evaluation back in Israel and stencilled a few "lift heres" on it to help their guys transport it around.They blew up the gun to prevent it being re-captured by the Arabs in the future.(It might even be a PT-76 or AMD, I dunno) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bab Posted December 22, 2002 Author Share Posted December 22, 2002 Some other pics like this: http://www.szanalmas.hu/diab/tank/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 Looks like an M-1A1, with turret turned to the rear, note red marker light. Gun could have been deliberately spiked, or an HE shell hung and went off in barrel. Who knows? We need some real Grog opinions here, or some Gulf War tankers to speculate on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cos Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 I'd say it's an M-1A2 with the 2 sites on the top of the turret there. Training accident? Judging from the other pics that appear to be mishaps at the training grounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimmer Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 It is an M1A2. The problem with the HE round theory is that the 120mm gun of that tank does not have an HE round available. If I had to guess, I'd say there was an obstruction in the barrel when the main gun was fired and the barrel was subjected to localized overpressure at the point of the obstruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellros Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 Originally posted by Cos: I'd say it's an M-1A2 with the 2 sites on the top of the turret there. Training accident? Judging from the other pics that appear to be mishaps at the training groundsAgreed, the sight on the right top, marks it as an M1A2. I'm guessing it's probably some sort of misfired shell during maneuvers in Kuwait (from the tan paintjob). Could be from somewhere else though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 Originally posted by Bimmer: It is an M1A2. The problem with the HE round theory is that the 120mm gun of that tank does not have an HE round available. If I had to guess, I'd say there was an obstruction in the barrel when the main gun was fired and the barrel was subjected to localized overpressure at the point of the obstruction.No, but it does have a HEAT round (or is it HESH??) which could certainly cause that damage if it detonated in the barrel. I'd still think your obstruction theory is more likley. The other possibility is deliberate sabotage, mostly likely by a tank crew forced to abandon the vehicle for one reason or another. One explosive charge into the engince compartment, and another into the main gun, and you've pretty much destroyed any chance of a disabled tank being captured by the enemy and repaired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KwK43 L/71 Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 Yeah, that's an M1A2, can't tell if it's the latest version though. I think they did have a HESH shell for the 105mm in the M1 but I don't think they have one for the 120mm, I'd be surprised if they did, HESH is pretty easy to defeat. The US isn't the only people with M1A2's, we've sold some of Kuwait and I wanna say Saudia Arabia and maybe the UAE, not really sure on the UAE. Could have also been an NTC live fire screw up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightblade Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 Modern tank ammo produces enormous pressure. The standard ammo for the Rheinmetall 120mm smooth bore (which is used for the Abrams since the A1 version as well as for the Leopard 2) generated about 4500 bar. New ammo developments have better propelling charges (burning faster), which have even increased this number. If the barrel is only slightly damaged (bumping it against the corner of a house, against a tree, whatever - I know this happens and many crews don´t think about it; the gun can take a bit, but some blows are too much - or in battle a hit even by only a 20mm round), it is very dangerous to to fire as something like you could see on the picture is likely to happen. That can have very destructive results in the interior of the tank too. [ December 22, 2002, 04:27 AM: Message edited by: Brightblade ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 Nice burst barrel First of all no M1 in the UAE, they use French LeClerc and some Brits stuff Bad ammo, obstruction or weakened barrel or a meteroite strike (kidding). I saw a banana peel like this on a M109A3 when the crew somehow loaded an HE round without the fuse on .....the bursting charge popped out when it was rammed and jammed against the shell, when they fired,......... oh well The Sp/4 "crew chief" was mighty surprized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimmer Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 I have strong doubts about the deliberate disabling theory simply because there is no need to do that much damage to render the gun inop. The 120 does have a HEAT round (no HESH) but the damage still appears to me to be an overpressure burst in an obstructed or damaged barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 I think Egypt bought some M1s didn't it? That looks like Arabic script above the LIFT HERE sign. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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