Question on DOODADs...will we have decals for unit markings on vehicles?

[Ryan Crierie]

From Michael Dorosh:

From my GD site - the symbol on the 222

armoured car is period and correct. This is

the symbol for a Motorized Reconaissance

unit. The "1" (it has been mirrored in the

photo) represents Number One company of

a reconaissance battalion.

The "A" stands for aufklaerungs (German

for "reconaissance").

Will we be able to have unit marking decals to

allow our units to be displayed with correct

markings as being from a certain division,

or halftracks having two decal sheets, one for

Heer, and the other for SS?

[ June 12, 2002, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: Ryan Crierie ]

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Ryan Crierie:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />From Michael Dorosh:

From my GD site - the symbol on the 222

armoured car is period and correct. This is

the symbol for a Motorized Reconaissance

unit. The "1" (it has been mirrored in the

photo) represents Number One company of

a reconaissance battalion.

The "A" stands for aufklaerungs (German

for "reconaissance").

Will we be able to have unit marking decals to

allow our units to be displayed with correct

markings as being from a certain division,

or halftracks having two decal sheets, one for

Heer, and the other for SS?</font>

[Hunter]

But can we do individual decals for each vehicle? That is the real question I think

[Philippe]

Originally posted by Hunter:

But can we do individual decals for each vehicle? That is the real question I think

If someone feels like making the mod and writing the CMMOS rules, you can have different markings for each different model that appears in the game. We already have that now to some extent, particularly with the Pzr IV's and the german halftracks.

What we can't do is have three different markings for three otherwise identical Pzr IV's. And what is really unfortunate is that we have to use exactly the same uniform for each man in a squad. (That becomes an issue if you care about how partisans or Volkssturm look, or if you want your troops to look a little less uniform).

But that pales in comparison to the fact that if you put a shoulder patch on an infantryman's left shoulder (other than on a paratrooper), it appears in mirror-reverse on his right. Or if you write the name of a tank on one side of the hull (e.g. Ouagadougou, the name of a real French tank) it appears in mirror reverse on the other side (the nonsensical Uoguodagauo).

[Ryan Crierie]

I was thinking more of transparent decals

applied over the skin BMPs to allow us to

select on quick battle screens:

"xx SS Panzer" etc,and have markings

automatically placed on our tanks, etc

for that unit...

at the very least, I'd love to have 3 different

Tigers with 503, 504, and 505 on their turrets

rather than settling for 503 for every tiger

in the game.

[Schrullenhaft]

No, I doubt we'll have anything beyond what most people can do with CMBO today. CMBB is already maxing out on VRAM requirements, where it will downsample the texture quality on anything less than a 32Mb video card. For desktop users this doesn't sound like too much of a problem if you have a machine that is less than a few years old. However laptop users would definitely have a problem if the VRAM requirements went up and that's exactly what would happen with unique textures for each vehicle (even if it only a number or symbol on one or two textures).

I don't think that having a 'transparency function' for 'individuating' the vehilces is realistic either (definitely not going to happen for CMBB). Such functions can drag down even high performance video cards. Just look at what smoke does currently in CMBO. Now apply that to AFVs all over the map and you have an idea how the performance of the game may be affected by including such a feature.

Perhaps when CMII is being coded up such options can be considered (since hardware specs are expected to be higher for games based on that engine). Right now CMBB is crammed full when it comes to pushing video card memory and performance and it's just one of those things that will have to be sacrificed for something else in the game.

[JonS]

Schrullenhaft

Perhaps when CMII is being coded up such options can be considered

I hope so. Recently I've been going to the effort of modding all the Brit vehicles and guns to make them all a coherent part of 11th Armd Div (and an independant Armd Bde for the oddball ones). Its coming together, though its a slow process, but even when its done there isn't the flexibility in the marking scheme that I'd like to see.

FWIW

Regards

JonS

[Madmatt]

Doodads are graphic enhancements to the terrain tiles. They do not work on models as such.

Madmatt

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Philippe:

...if you write the name of a tank on one side of the hull (e.g. Ouagadougou, the name of a real French tank) it appears in mirror reverse on the other side (the nonsensical Uoguodagauo).

Interesting that you appear to regard Ouagadougou as sensible...

Michael

[Philippe]

Ouagadougou was (and still is) a town in French West Africa, so for a Frenchman to name a tank after it was a bit like an American naming a tank Lubbock.

[jeffsmith]

Have Vram requirements changed ???

Originally posted by Schrullenhaft:

where it will downsample the texture quality on anything less than a 32Mb video card.

Whereas in an older thread

As mentioned earlier CMBB will downsample on a 32Mb video card, which may not be all that noticeable until you get very close to the textures at level 1.

[Sheck]

Michael,

Where did you get this tactical symbol from (the one indicating a Motorized Reconaissance

unit on your website - "The 1st Company of a fully motorized reconnaissance unit would have used this symbol; the A stands for "aufklärungs", or reconnaissance.")?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Michael Dorosh:

From my GD site - the symbol on the 222

armoured car is period and correct. This is

the symbol for a Motorized Reconaissance

unit. The "1" (it has been mirrored in the

photo) represents Number One company of

a reconaissance battalion.

The "A" stands for aufklaerungs (German

for "reconaissance").

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The symbol would indicate its a motorized cavalry platoon from a reconnaissance formation OR a motorized military police platoon in a reconnaissance formation not a motorized reconnaisance company.

A symbol for a motorized reconnaissance platoon would be lack the diagonal line - that is indicative of cavalry Or the Feldgerarmarie (miltary police).

A company has thick bar on the left.

This is true for both the pre-May 9143 and post-May 1943 German Tactical Symbols.

Thanks.

Regards,

Stefan

[Michael Dorosh]

Stefan - the PzAufk Abt. GD had very strong cavalry connections - they wore golden yellow waffenfarbe and used the rank titles of RITTMEISTER, WACHMEISTER, etc. This is probably why they also used the tactical symbol that they did. They also had motorcycle squadrons, so perhaps this was a way for them to distinguish the motorcycle recon units - who used the circle with cross insignia.

There is photographic evidence of armoured cars of GD using this symbol. Like everything else, perhaps GD was different from the rest of the army in this regard also. But I believe most PzAufkl units had these "cavalry" traditions, and by 1943, my understanding is that the Cavalry Divisions had all been converted to other arms. 24 PD wore golden yellow, for example, since it came from cavalry roots.

God Honor Fatherland shows Sd Kfz 232s and 233s of the Divisional Headquarters company wearing this insignia. See p. 23. I will have to look at the Aufk Abt photos more carefully to see which symbol they use. But this is definitely one used by armoured cars of GD, which had no cavalry units.

The regs in the German Army were not the last word, of course, just a beginning point.

One reference I checked in haste today lists the symbol above (ie with a diagonal line) as "reconaissance or cavalry."

[ June 15, 2002, 02:17 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Sheck]

Michael,

I looked through my books...this makes sense now as GD was still classified as an 'Infantry Regiment/Division' in 1940/1941. The Reconnaissance Btl. for an ID has its first company as a Mounted (cavalry) Squadron (company). Since the GD was special and equipped itself with AC.s vs. horses - it would have utilized the proper symbols but modified to describe what it had done.

By 1942, I think, GD had gone over to the 'Krad.' Btl. organization and all equipment bore those symbols.

Regards,

Stefan