Public Quickbattle is on

[Cpl Carrot]

I assume you are joking Mr 76.

I was happy with the performance of the 76mm gun. Had a few with tungsten and more canister rounds than I could shake a bottle of vodka at. My problem was getting into a position where this was for nougt.

[Huron]

Thanks to both of you for the time and effort of posting pics and AAR. I came to late to follow it live, but always find AAR's interesting.

Cpl Carrot, during the set up phase, did you contemplate sending a tank platoon with mounted infantry racing straight for the village? With the rest of a inf company catching up as fast as possible.

From the overview pics it looks like the Axis had a better view of the village, and maybe even a shorter distance, so it would have been quite a risk. But having two tank platoons, maybe one could have been worth to gamble with.

It's always easy to second-guess when you have the facts ( ) and not playing blind, so I'm just asking, curious of your thoughts on how such a gamble would have paid off. One could assume you'd have a greater chance of securing the large VL than than Redwolf (looks like a better covered approach to it for inf), so messing up the approach to the supposed priamry targets for the Axis (village/small VL's) could have been worthwhile.

And yes, I can just feel the agony of ending up face to face with a Pz IV/70 in a T-34, uff. Great series of pics, Redwolf.

[Kwazydog]

Guys, thanks for taking the time to do this. I even found it an interesting read!

Dan

[Monty]

Thanks a lot for the AAR's and screenies guys.

While waiting for my ordered (import from US ) CMBB, i hope for more of these !

Cheers !

Monty aka Moose

[Nabla]

Excellent work, guys! Wouldn't mind to see another one if someone has the time and energy.

[Cpl Carrot]

Originally posted by KwazyDog:

Guys, thanks for taking the time to do this. I even found it an interesting read!

Dan

Are you saying you find most AAR boring?

[Cpl Carrot]

I am a rather cautious player by defualt, so such a tactic would be totally against my nature. Would it work though? Um possibly. The village was pretty beat up before we arrived so it would not have offered me much cover, but who knows.

I let Redwolf have the village, as I knew I would be able to see him enter and get some idea of his force composition. Unfortunately my 82mm mortar spotter (with 9 tubes) got a grand total of 2 kills. The way Redwolf's infantry was running about I thought I was getting more than that.

I found it very diffult to move infantry about as even long range rifle fire would scare the bejesus out of half the platoons and then you have to wait for them to recover and catch up.

My only other real problem was lack of infantry AT weopens. Coming from CMBO where you had 'shrecks and 'zooks galore to CMBB where all you have is AT rifles which penatrate ~30mm at 100m. Combined arms is so much more of an issue here.

Even though I had pleanty of men left, I knew I could not do much to improve my score with out risking ruining it further. The cease fire was a welcome relief, all though Redwolf could have driven the nail in the coffin, he is a gentleman and left me some dignity

Some more practice during the week in order though

[ September 29, 2002, 05:46 AM: Message edited by: Cpl Carrot ]

[Huron]

Yes, Cpl Carrot, I'm pretty much of the same cautious nature myself, actually, and racing an armour platoon into the village is easier in hindsight, knowing you had more tanks than Redwolf.

I'm still stuck with the demo here in Europe, so don't know much about CMBB yet, but this has got me thinking about using armour more aggressivly than in CMBO. The Yelnia Stare scenario is a point in case in the extreme, but still. The brittleness of infantry will take some re-learning, also in the aggressive use of tanks.

[ September 29, 2002, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Huron ]

[Sirocco]

It often makes more sense to establish ambush positions overlooking the flags when you're up against an aggressive opponent. Let him win the flags, while you win the game.

[Silvio Manuel]

Nice effort gentlemen, thanks.

[imported_argie]

Hey, Carrot!

I don't see you signing in for the new Onion Wars. And you are becoming a good player, after all!

[Redwolf]

As for the combat and racing to the village first. I think it is an

incredibly complex question.

For starters, the defense in CMB is stronger than in CMBO, so that

would primarily lead to the assumption that rushing is pretty

important. However, if both rush you might as well arrive second and

have your running men shot up outright.

I think six T-34 (probably with canister rounds) would be plenty to

beat the living hell out of infantry in a village, sure enough you

could supress them to a point where you would be free to move your

infantry into the village again, equalling out the rusher's advantage.

Another aspect is the pre-damage. I got plenty rubble and craters and

more buidings were damage and turned into rubble. So I was effectivly

dug in in the village, about 2/3 of my men had foxhole-class cover.

The HMGs and the non-radio spotters count against the rush theory,

too. In CMBB, when a unit which cannot run panics and runs then it

exhausts thruroughly and practically for the rest of the game. I had

some MGs ride on tankback, but that only solves the speed probably, if

you get under fire the effect is even worse.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Panzer Boxb:

I say, well done to you both. redwolf, what process did you use to transfer the screenshots to your Web server? I really liked the format of how this was done and would love to see more in the future. Cheers, gents!

My windows gaming machine runs a TCP/IP server which whenever contacted will deliver the contents of the clipboard, which is what your screen ends up in when you press printscreen.

The webserver I use is actually my home machine and is the gateway between the internet and the gaming machine. It is also the fileserver for the Windows box, so everything the game writes to disk lands directly where I can offer it on the web. The series of screenshots are taken by a commandline utility using the clipboard TCP server above.

The cgi script for the "live" screencapture on contact is just a little shellscript on the server getting the clipboard from the windows box and delivers it right to the webbroser, without ever storing it on disk, after constructing the needed headers. I could also hack the screenshot server to send a http header. (Note: I took all my employers data and some private stuff off my network before doing this ).

If anybody likes to have either the TCP/IP server on the Windows box and/or the cgi script let me know.

[ September 29, 2002, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[Kwazydog]

Hehe, actually quite the opposite Cpl Carrot. Even though Ive been working on and playing CMBB for neat two years now I am finding the AAR's fascinating. It is very interesting to see how people play and handle different situations .

Dan

[Cpl Carrot]

I have been thinking on the rush a platoon into the viallge approach and have come to the following conclusions:

(1) My force composition was not suited to the task. Four squad platoons don't mix well with 3 tank platoons. Some poor sap would be left behind and that would mean out of contact or tie up a company commander to fix the issue.

(2) If I were to push a platoon into the village the tanks would be sitting ducks at that stage of the war with 'shrecks and 'fausts available.

(3) I would need a platonn so something hefty (eg SU-85) for AT support if they became threatened.

Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing and perhaps if we do this again I will be a bit better.

Cpl Carrot

[Generale_Pasquini]

With screenshots and 2000+ its gonna take more then 8 hours. I've had some 1500 games go beyond 4 hours on TournamentHouse... I think a reasonable battle scheme would be 1500 or so with pictures every 2-3 turns, of important events (a tank battle, a infantry slugfest)...

[Redwolf]

Could some brave soul with webspace please mirror my pictures?

[Falkao]

I have webspace... send them to falkao@netmadeira.com

cya

[Eden Smallwood]

Did anyone try to load the uploaded Autosave.cme file? It seems curious to me that y'all are not excited about this possibility and discussing it...?

On reflection, because the Autosave file is typically less than 100K, it seems clear and understandable that the game state described therein points to, depends on, refers to the *other* files which are part of the game install.

Exampli gratia, Joe General and Max Lieutenant decide to PlayPublic a scenario part of install, call it, um, _The Pilsner Pinch_. ( I don't have the game yet).

We would expect that anyone with the full game would be able to load an Autosave posted, since they also have Pilsner Pinch.Scenario Description file, and also all the graphic files of BigAssGermanGuns and stuff that are in that scenario...

The only possible complication there is that we are not sure Autosave file is cross platform!!!

But clearly people with just Demo are SOL.

Now suppose Joe & Max play a QB- I suppose there are temp files created by the game which describe the scenario. A complication which exists this time for everyone except Joe & Max- noone else will have these files. I imagine that in case of QB noone will be able to read Autosave unless Joe goes fishing around and posts temp files or somesuch...?

In case of Charity To People W/Out Game, clearly we'all would only be able to follow in case of Demo scenarios. While those *with* game probably have Yelnia as *last* thing they could possibly want to play, it also might be the most interesting in that, since we have all played it, we all know what's up there, we could meaningfully compare and witness others approachs to tactics.

Anyway. These thoughts brought to you courtesty of

Eden

[Redwolf]

I have a script capturing the Autosave everytime it changes and kicks it into the web-accessible area.

I was too lazy to make that script detect an autosave that is currently in progress of being written, that is where the zero-length and shortend files come from. But all valid autosaves should be there, the broken files are in addition.

[Cameroon]

Eden, you managed it, you confused me

The autosave files contain the actual map, same as in a PBEM. The reason they are not large is because the autosaves do not contain any "Movies" (i.e. the action phase). PBEMs also have two files that are "small", these are sent when only moves are being plotted. Anyone with the full install can load the autosaves, and if they knew both passwords, could actually start playing. Knowing only the German password, we could only see that side.

The only reason the demo people couldn't load up the autosaves is that they do not have all the necessary installed information. The demo contains only the tiles and units (and other things I'm sure) that are required for the two demo maps.

Ok, hopefully that is a resonable response to what I think Eden's question/comment was

[Eden Smallwood]

Originally posted by Cameroon:

Eden, you managed it, you confused me

Not trying very hard, either. Apologies for my possibly bass ackwards to the left of upside down writing style.

The autosave files contain the actual map, same as in a PBEM.

Ah, ok- counterintuitive, I think. So that would imply very strongly that the autosave file is in fact cross platform, and also that people with full install will be able to read autosaves which represent QBs.

The only reason the demo people couldn't load up the autosaves is that they do not have all the necessary installed information.

Quite so. Abundantly clear.

OK, so finally, assuming I'm not the only one to find this interesting, we have two points which you're asserting, which you need not reply to unless I'm wrong here...

#1) Autosave is cross platform

#2) Autosave of a QB is readable by other CM owners.

The next thing we might wonder is how to make a movie of the *entire* battle- after all, this is standard fare for most driving sims, flight sims... Would be neat, of course, but how to decide what to focus on? Anyhow, thx,

Eden

[Redwolf]

More notes on the battle:

This felt a lot like a CMBO battle. The main difference is that once

contact is made infantry movement is much more difficult. Before that

it is slower, due to units tiring earlier now.

But otherwise, the tank combat, the availablity of thinks like the

Schreck felt a lot like CMBO. Most importantly, and different from

the Velnia Stare scenario in the demo, the Russians are medium quality

here and they overran my HMG just fine when its buddy fell victim to a

plane.

In my opinion, the new game is much more realistic, and I believe that

those people who were disappointed in the CMBB demo and dismissed

based on it are mostly wrong. If you choose the right timeframe and

similar units to CMBO then you get closer than you can imagine based

on the demo.

I really like the "clock of death" (stupid name). Can get into real

nailbiter turns when your tanks pounds 5 rounds into the T-34 while AT

teams may be near.

The air support is improved as well, it doesn't have such a

game-decisive effect. I still don't like the fact that it distorts

victory point calculation, it is too one-sided and would be better

suited for objetive-based victory conditions.

The new slow turn rate is incompletely implemented, I had my Panzer

IV/70 turn a lot faster by giving it a reverse command.

I do like only part of the new command selection. I'll post a

different thread about that sometime else, probably after the first

patch.

I absolutely love the variable rarity system.

I might like the Panzer IV/70 in CMBB (which I hated in CMBO).

I need to learn to position HMGs whithout getting them broken and

exhaust from receiving fire on the way. And I have no clue whatsoever

how to position the non-radio artillery spotters it's amazing they

survived this battle. And there is probably something about non-radio

FOs not really the best choice for a meeting engagement (doh!).

The two-man turret T-34s bought in platoons seem to offer quite a

challenge.

[ September 30, 2002, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[Redwolf]

This is a bump.

Because we'll do battle in an hour or so, and while there is probably less interest now that everybody but the British have their games I will post screenshots the same way as before.

I will post them on

http://65.96.131.208/tmp/cmbb-pics/live2/

The old pictures are available at

http://members.netmadeira.com/falkao/pics.htm

Thanks for the mirror, Falkao!

[ October 13, 2002, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[Redwolf]

We do an everything random 1250 points battle, me Axis.

Last time we had a CMBO-like game, lets see what this brings.

UPDATE: I am attacking with a low-quality German recon battalion on wet ground, on a map with lots of woods.

UPDATE: due to excessivly low force quality and substancial pre-battle losses I really have one recon 41 battalion, one pioneer company and and pioneer platoon. My vehicles are mostly halftracks, one 251 mortar carrier, 250 20mm, 250 APC and a pair of 250 75mm. A single PSW 222 (very) light armored car with 20mm gun rounbs it up.

I guess we will now know how cost-effective flamethrowers in CMBB are (victory-point wise).

Setup will take a while.

[ October 13, 2002, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ]