Herr Kruger Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 I once had a Stuart penetrate Wittman's Tiger and cause a casualty... can't remember the range though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 I lost Tiger at 650 meters to Daimler! Front armour weak point. What annoyed me the most is that Tiger totally ignored Daimler and was anihilating infantry which was 100 meters away. So stop complaining! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Why does everyone make it sound like the Daimlers are the bad guys. I'm proud of the little buggers for blowing up those big tanks and teaching their owners they have to learn a bit more about playing the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Originally posted by CMplayer: Why does everyone make it sound like the Daimlers are the bad guys. I'm proud of the little buggers for blowing up those big tanks and teaching their owners they have to learn a bit more about playing the game.Oh sorry, the most people here believed this is a threat about historical accuracy, not about mastering the game engine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightningWar Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Why does everyone make it sound like the Daimlers are the bad guys. I'm proud of the little buggers for blowing up those big tanks and teaching their owners they have to learn a bit more about playing the game." Just looking for the most realism Can anybody even pin a Tiger or Panther killing from a frontal penetration by a Daimler AC in real life? just curious. I understand it was bad luck. But jesus it is annoying -LW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by LightningWar: Can anybody even pin a Tiger or Panther killing from a frontal penetration by a Daimler AC in real life? LightningWar, please fix your quoting! You lead to attribution of statements to the wrong authors and many people here do not like that at all. I cannot come up with a Daimler example, but apparently there was a Stuart crew in Normandy who made a sports out of shooting the driver in Panthers by exploiting the shot trap. If you (as some should have anyway) go back the forum to the second half of 2000 when BTS defended their introdution of the shot trap this Stuart gang has been discussed. I don't remember whether any hard historical evidence was given. I don't understand the topc drift anyway. The Panther seems to workas advertised. It has the shot trap and hence a problem, but not with the engine. But we seem to have Tigers being knocked out without weak spot penetration, that would be a bug. [ August 20, 2002, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDW Posted August 21, 2002 Author Share Posted August 21, 2002 Redwolf - yeah, that was my original question: is it physically possible for the 40mm AP round from a Daimler AC to penetrate the turret of a Tiger from the front at range 270? Based on the posts so far, I am leaning towards thinking this is a bug or at least an EXTREMELY unlikely possibility in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by BDW: Redwolf - yeah, that was my original question: is it physically possible for the 40mm AP round from a Daimler AC to penetrate the turret of a Tiger from the front at range 270? Well, in reality, probably, the rexford book is very extensive when it comes to study the turret Tiger front and if you're willing to find the least resistent spot. This is all fine and covered by the 1% weak spot penetration chance that CMBO gives tanks with no shot trap. However... Based on the posts so far, I am leaning towards thinking this is a bug or at least an EXTREMELY unlikely possibility in real life.... the real question is whether people see front turret Tiger penetrations without the "at weak point" message, and at a higher frequency than 1/100. People indicated that this is the case here. Anybody seriously interested in the question should set up some tests and closely watch the messages. Take a screenshot and the savegame. As always, another big question is what does such a round do, a small round which just expended its energy almost completely and what that means for the knockout-on-penetration chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDW Posted August 21, 2002 Author Share Posted August 21, 2002 thanks [ August 21, 2002, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: BDW ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by Scipio: Oh sorry, the most people here believed this is a <big><big>threat</big> </big>about historical accuracy, not about mastering the game engine! Are you threatening me? Anyway I was referring to mastering tactics more than the game engine. You must know the kind of player I'm referring to, who buys big tanks in a bid to avoid having to think, and then gets upset when his pet kitty croaks. Those of you having an objective debate about armor penetration aren't the ones making the noble Daimler sound like a four wheeled terrorist. Do carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightningWar Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Redwolf states: "LightningWar, please fix your quoting! You lead to attribution of statements to the wrong authors and many people here do not like that at all." I go over this on other forums. The reasoning behind not using the built in quote system is when you go over 1 quote it starts to lump the original quote and the new quote together and you get a complete mess IMO. I find that much more difficult to weed through which is the quote and which is the original quote. And if you go 3+ deep forget it. So I copy and paste peoples quotes and use the quote key for its purpose As for not being able to tell who said it. I guess I am used to people responding to me who wrote the original quote. I mean afterall they did write it, they should recognize it. I will start putting peoples names above the quote. -LW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: As always, another big question is what does such a round do, a small round which just expended its energy almost completely and what that means for the knockout-on-penetration chance.Good point. I think the problem is that the game engine makes no difference here. Once the armor is penetrated, then it seems to calculate the damage always with the same parameters. And this means in at least 80% that the tanks is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by Scipio: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by redwolf: As always, another big question is what does such a round do, a small round which just expended its energy almost completely and what that means for the knockout-on-penetration chance.Good point. I think the problem is that the game engine makes no difference here. Once the armor is penetrated, then it seems to calculate the damage always with the same parameters. And this means in at least 80% that the tanks is dead.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dittohead Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 IIRC the "shatter gap" as defined by Rexford is not correctly modeled in the game which allows the 37mm and 40mm to get penetrations against face hardened armor when in fact the round should shatter instead of penetrating. Rounds do shatter in the game but i think that only applies to armor it would not normally penetrate. But then again i could be wrong. But who knows I don't remember things so good these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 FWIW teh CMBB damage model takes into account something about the energy remaining after penetration - hence a lightvehivcle can get turned into a colander by 14.5mm ATRrounds yet end up with no damage!! I had this in the demo I saw - A P2 kept getting plinked in the side at about 3-400m - there can't have ben any actual steel left I reckon - the whole side mucht've been penetrated, but it sudffered no damage!! But all those messages still looked good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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