I Hate Paris in the Sprintime

[Boo Radley]

Just got done playing the Walk in Paris scenario. Actually, I finished it yesterday. Since then I've played Aachen, just to get the sour taste out of my mouth. Where do I begin? I was not prepared for this situation. I'd played the demo scenarios often enough and the tutorial was like a picnic, but I was not ready to command that many men and tanks. If the actual Paris offensive had been orchestrated with the same level of incompetency, the denizens of the "city of light" would be wearing lederhosen and defining "lard" as a beverage even today. A bunch of blindfolded pogo-stickers could have affected a more successful liberation.

"Tactical Victory", my eye! What a nice tactful way to say "Your leadership skills suck canal water through a straw."

I am devastated. I am beside myself. There's actually two of me here and neither of us is very happy.

I think I need to go lay down.

[Mud]

Heh. It's been a while since I've played that scenario, and then only against the AI, but... hrm, if memory serves, both sides have fairly ugly deployments. The French need to coordinate an attack from multiple points, including a one- or two-abreast stroll by the canal through the LOS of a waiting enemy AFV, while the Germans have far fewer resources.

Most of the other scenarios I remember, with the notable exception of the airborne assaults, give you more contiguous forces, which might be easier to manage.

If you want a scenario where you'll desperately WANT more units to control, as soon as possible, hm, try playing the Sherbrooke Fusiliers scenario as the Canadians. *chuckle* But at least your forces have a fairly contiguous defensive line...

Or if you want to experience the irritation that one well-placed unit can provide, try "All or Nothing", or perhaps "A Long Cold Day".

[Boo Radley]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mud:

Or if you want to experience the irritation that one well-placed unit can provide, try "All or Nothing", or perhaps "A Long Cold Day".<hr></blockquote>

Oh good. I just started "All or Nothing". I was going to play these as they appear in order. Is that not a good idea?

[aka_tom_w]

what side did you play?

I take it you chose the German's?

I played it for the first time just recently double blind via TCP/IP I played the allies and "just " managed a draw against a relatively inexperienced German commander.

-tom w

[Andrew H.]

The Road to Wiltz is a great scenario, and is particularly good for new people because there are a relatively small number of troops to control, but it is tactically very interesting.

[Boo Radley]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

what side did you play?

I take it you chose the German's?

-tom w<hr></blockquote>

No. I played the Allied, not out of any latent jingoistic feelings, but...well, maybe a little. lol.

Do most players go right down the list in choosing games or do you skip around?

[R.C.]

I skip around. The number of turns and time often determine what I play.

[gredeker]

It's often better when starting out to play the smaller ones first. IIRC, the "size" column (Tiny, Small, Medium, Large etc.) actually refers to the number of units in play, not necessarily the size of the map. Stick with Tiny and Small first. Avoid Huge until you feel like you have a better handle on what's going on.

Some people also have interest in a particular area conflict (Normandy, West Wall, French Breakout) and play those scenarios first - others are interested in trying different climatic conditions (fog, night, snow) to see how that changes things.

[aka_tom_w]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Boo_Radley:

No. I played the Allied, not out of any latent jingoistic feelings, but...well, maybe a little. lol.

Do most players go right down the list in choosing games or do you skip around?<hr></blockquote>

Skip around play smaller ones first

Play a Quick Battle or two and choose your own units

go to the scenario depot and download some custom designed scenario from other players

OR

and this one is FUN

Design your own scenario. Make your own map, pick the units and set up or both sides and then TRY not to let the AI BEAT you the scenario you just designed.

And for advice I would NOT just play the scenario's that came with the game CD in alphabetical order, that makes no sense.

-tom w

[voidhawk]

I'm playing them in historical order, from the Allied side first - I'm up to "One Long Cold Day" now (January 6, 1945.) Then I'll play any scenarios that were best played from the Axis side first, also in historical order. Perhaps not the best way to learn the game, but it gives you a good feel for what happened after D-Day, and new units show up as time goes by.

In the meantime, I've branched off into PBEM play, and found that to be a most enjoyable (if not slow) pursuit...

[Boo Radley]

I've begun skipping around. Playing the smaller scenarios first. I played Wiltz this afternoon, as Allied and it was a blast. I think I lucked into my deployment, because within the first 5 turns, the road was littered with dead German vehicles. After that it was a turkey shoot for the most part.

I also played a small game this evening...some kind of attack on a ridge (I'm lousy with names)and an odd thing happened. The last obstacle facing me was a panzer and before I could get my mortars within range, it was hit by an air strike. I didn't call in any air strikes. Are they sometimes random?

[aka_tom_w]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Boo_Radley:

I've begun skipping around. Playing the smaller scenarios first. I played Wiltz this afternoon, as Allied and it was a blast. I think I lucked into my deployment, because within the first 5 turns, the road was littered with dead German vehicles. After that it was a turkey shoot for the most part.

I also played a small game this evening...some kind of attack on a ridge (I'm lousy with names)and an odd thing happened. The last obstacle facing me was a panzer and before I could get my mortars within range, it was hit by an air strike. I didn't call in any air strikes. Are they sometimes random?<hr></blockquote>

They are always at random, you cannot call in an airstrike. Sometimes they come sometimes they get lost and don't show up.

They are part of the scenario as designated by the scenario designer.

Sometimes they take out the enemy

Sometimes they miss

and sometimes they take out your tanks

you just never know

if the skies are clear keep your eyes open for air strikes from either side.

-tom w

[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]</p>

[Fieldmarshall]

Well the reason that the attack on Paris was not as bloody as the scenario was because it is pretty much a hypothetical scenario, because, the only real fighting between German & allied forces in Paris was against the French Resistance, and few were killed on either side, when Major General Jaque LeCler's armor attacked Paris in August(which I believe is when the scenario takes place, or at least when it should) the kommandant of Paris General Holtiz demanded a halt to the fighting or he would level the City of Light, although, he decided the historical cost would be too great, and decided on a fighting withdrawl, to inflict as little damage to the city as possible, so, intense fighting like in the scenario, never really happend.

--Niles

[Boo Radley]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

They are always at random, you cannot call in an airstrike.

<hr></blockquote>

Wait a minute. I thought you could call in an air strike. I've just started playing the game, but I could've sworn I saw that option listed.

[ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: Boo_Radley ]</p>

[mensch]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Boo_Radley:

Wait a minute. I thought you could call in an air strike. I've just started playing the game, but I could've sworn I saw that option listed.

<hr></blockquote>

Nope no such thing, but I'm sure in a few games I wish I had "Call in Tiger II reenforcements Coy" or "Call in a hord-o-Super Pershings" but BTS does not reply to my constant anoying.. I mean informative emails!!

BTS FIX IT OR DO SOMEFINK!

[Mud]

Aye. No calling-in of airstrikes. What you can do in a QB, or a scenario designer could do for you otherwise, is purchase a fighter-bomber (if they're available; depends on side and month, plus it might be unaffordable if the arty budget is low).

'course, it may or may not participate in the battle. If it does, it'll choose when and where. And it'll choose its targets, which may or may not include your *own* guys, or alternately it could spend a turn or two strafing an already-destroyed tank. I believe the scenario that was described was Grosbeek, and yes, the allies do get air support there IIRC.

As for All or Nothing -- let's just say that by the time I got to town, I was more than ready to unleash the Crocodile. Large parts of the town ended up either burnt or shelled into rubble. I won't spoil what the "obstacle unit" is, 'tho, in case you haven't yet stumbled into it. You may even luck out and destroy it easily... or it could hold you up for several turns while you curse your arty spotters. *shrug*

[Boo Radley]

OK, I think what I saw was some advertising copy that stated you "could call in your own airstrikes". Maybe I misread it.

As for "All or Nothing", I've decided to let that go for awhile until I get a few of the smaller battles under my belt. I quit early in that game, the only enemy object I had seen was a wooden bunker near the bridge, which was no problem.

[wes hays]

Boo - I'm actually going through the scenarios in alphabetic order, but with a twist. I try both sides, and see if I can do better than the AI. I just started, because I played a lot of QB's so I'm on Paris, and as the Allies. I will agree that you are all over the map, but if you coordinate everything, you can kill the Panzers, and herd their infantry with the Shermans into a killing zone in the garden. It's great, watching them run around panicked.

As the Germans, I guess its pretty much a hold on till the end. The TD's and Sherm's won't take the abuse that the Panthers will, so hide and pick them off. The AI sat right out in the open. I can't wait to see how it goes.

I must say, this is probably the best game I have ever played. I must get the wife and kids out of the house more often, so I do nothing for an entire day but CMBB until my eyes are red and watering.

[Boo Radley]

I've only played Paris as the Allied. I'm not sure if I'd want to play as the Germans just yet (the whole thing is too fresh in my mind). Paris was my first stab at fighting in a city and I just wasn't prepared for it. I was very thankful for the reinforcements because while the panzers were playing cat and mouse with my Sherman's, the tank killers were able to take out the panzers from behind. After that, it was really no problem at all.

Yeah, this is a pretty cool game. I'll sit down at the computer after supper and when I next look up, it's 10 PM.

[Joel]

First, I'm glad to see that such an old scenario can still help players enjoy the game!

Niles,

The default set-up positions of the scenario "A walk in Paris" are the same ones as described in the numerous sources I used, give or take one Panther or Sherman. This particular engagement took place on June 25th and is reasonably well documented (sources are listed in the scenario briefings).

I would be curious to know which of your sources states that "the only real fighting between German & allied forces in Paris was against the French Resistance" since it goes against everything else I've read about the topic. Maybe it is the same one that states that Leclerc's first name was Jaque (was Philippe) or that the German commander's name was Holditz (was von Choltitz).

I do agree however that there was no real "city fighting" in Paris stricto sensu, meaning that there was very few building to building combat, but it does not mean that there was no "real fighting". That was mostly quick and brutal street fighting with a tactical situation evolving very quickly (due partly to the mobility of French forces, partly to the low troop density). Nothing to do with Aachen or Stalingrad.

Most Germans did not offer much resistance, except in some areas such as the one described in the scenario.

Joël

[Boo Radley]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Joel:

First, I'm glad to see that such an old scenario can still help players enjoy the game!

Joël<hr></blockquote>

Maybe old to someone who's been playing the game for three years, but to someone who's only had the game for a week, it's all very fresh.

I played a medium sized QB this evening (that's another thing -- figuring out all the acronyms -- I knew it couldn't mean Quarterback!)and at this point, I would be extremely hesitant to play another person. Honestly, with some of the mistakes I've made, I'm surprised I haven't been fragged yet. I do think I saw a bailed crewman flip me off once.

:eek: :eek:

[Lars]

Boo, try an Operation for real fun.

"A Day in the Calvery" as Allies would probably be just right for you at this stage.

[Iron Chef Sakai]

Is it possible to do player vs player campaigns?

[Lars]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Iron Chef Sakai:

Is it possible to do player vs player campaigns?<hr></blockquote>

Yes, I have about five PBEM operations going right now.

[Boo Radley]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Iron Chef Sakai:

Is it possible to do player vs player campaigns?<hr></blockquote>

OK, here's a n00b (newbie) question: what is a player vs. player campaign? I understand PBEM's and TCP/IP, so how does this fit into the puzzle?