Heavy SMG squad FP table

[Panther G]

In the Heavy SMG squad firepower table, it shows the two MG42 LMGs as having only a firepower of 40 (together) at 40 meters. Then the table goes up to 78 (together) at 100 meters. What gives...?

Ryan

[Officer Meatbeef]

I believe the higher firepower rating at range is due to the fact that the LMGs are being assisted by the other SMG-bearing members of the squad. Once the distance is closed enough for the SMGs to be effective, the '42s are left on their own while the '40s use the opportunity to prove their worth.

Or maybe once the enemy gets that close, the LMGers just always panic, pick up their weapon and start firing wildly from the hip until they fall over. Yeah, just think of it that way. And your games will be all the more fun thanks to the imagined zany antics of those kooky MG42s.

[Panther G]

Originally posted by Officer Meatbeef:

I believe the higher firepower rating at range is due to the fact that the LMGs are being assisted by the other SMG-bearing members of the squad. Once the distance is closed enough for the SMGs to be effective, the '42s are left on their own while the '40s use the opportunity to prove their worth.

Or maybe once the enemy gets that close, the LMGers just always panic, pick up their weapon and start firing wildly from the hip until they fall over. Yeah, just think of it that way. And your games will be all the more fun thanks to the imagined zany antics of those kooky MG42s.

Then why do other squads that have two MG42's have a firepower of 100 at 40 meters? Like the panzergrenadiers for example. They have two MG42 LMGs but they get 100... Is it because if the designers gave the LMGs full firepower, the squad would have way too much FP?

Ryan

[Cogust]

Becasue then the Mauser guys help them out at close ranges as they will provide more fire power that way than firing their bolt action rifles.

[Silvio Manuel]

Heavy SMG: the LMG assistants pick up their SMGs due to the short range; the LMG gunners fire without anyone to help w/ ammo & switching barrels, hence the lower FP for the LMGs.

Normal German squads & Heavy SMG at range: 1 of the Kar98 riflemen drops his rifle and normally assists w/ the LMG gunner, so the squad gets the full LMG firepower, less 1 rifle that the asst. is NOT firing.

[Andrew H.]

Like Silvio said: when the range closes to 40m, the assistant gunners who are armed with SMGs realize that the squad as a whole will put out more firepower if they stop assisting the guy with the MG 42 and fire their SMGs. The drop in output from the the MG 42 will be less than the increase in firepower due to the fact that the (former) assistant gunners are now firing SMGs.

But if the assistant gunner is armed with a rifle, he doesn't stop being an assistnat gunner because the drop in output from the MG 42 will be more than the increase in firepower from firing his rifle, and the squad's firepower as a whole will thus be less than if he kept helping the MG 42 gunner.

[Panther G]

So without the assistant gunner, the LMG loses 60% of it's firepower?! Going from 20 at 40 meters (MG42 LMG without assistant) to 50 at 40 meters (MG42 LMG with assistant). Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought the assistant basically just helped with the ammo... Also, if losing the assistant is modeled in the infantry squads, why is it not modeled in the normal LMG and HMG's? I know that they can take casualties, but they don't lose firepower for it, just ammo. Hmm...

Ryan

[Stoffel]

hmm,odd story about the assistant

I never had any problems with my personal mg in service.

My assistent only had to link new ammo to the belt every now and than.

Or change the barrel after 1 box of ammo was fired during rapid firing

Thus he had time enough to fire his own weapon since both activities only took a few seconds to do.

[Silvio Manuel]

IIRC, the LMG-style MG42 (on bipod) used ammo stored in some kind of small barrel/cannister. Perhaps you could not link the "chains" of ammo together in advance, and thus w/o an Asst. gunner, you had to do more work by hand to facilitate rapid firing? The lower FP rating is a result of that. Perhaps they also abstracted the lack of a spotter for the LMG gunner.

[Panther G]

Originally posted by Silvio Manuel:

IIRC, the LMG-style MG42 (on bipod) used ammo stored in some kind of small barrel/cannister.

Really? Look at this picture:

As you can see, there is no cannister. Maybe what you're thinking of is the vehicle mounted MG-34?

[ April 30, 2002, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: Panther G ]

[Panther G]

Originally posted by Stoffel:

My assistent only had to link new ammo to the belt every now and than.

Or change the barrel after 1 box of ammo was fired during rapid firing

Thus he had time enough to fire his own weapon since both activities only took a few seconds to do.

That is what I thought, also. Maybe the decrease in firepower should be modeled but 60% seems to be a bit much...

[Mattias]

Does any of you know that this MG assistant thingy is in fact a design feature of CM or are you just speculating wildly?

M.

[Panther G]

Originally posted by Mattias:

Does any of you know that this MG assistant thingy is in fact a design feature of CM or are you just speculating wildly?

If it's not, then there is no real plausible expanation (sure, the designers could have messed up but it would have been fixed by now...) for why the firepower drops from 50 per MG-42 LMG at 40 meters to 20 on the same gun.

[M Hofbauer]

Originally posted by Panther G:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Silvio Manuel:

IIRC, the LMG-style MG42 (on bipod) used ammo stored in some kind of small barrel/cannister.

Really? Look at this picture:

As you can see, there is no cannister. Maybe what you're thinking of is the vehicle mounted MG-34?</font>

[Panther G]

Originally posted by M Hofbauer:

However, there were also the "Doppeltrommel" 75-round double drum (only in theory) and the 50-round "Gurttrommel" which had a short 50-round linked belt coiled up in a drum that was fitted to the MG in the employment as an assault MG.

How common were these? Are these the ones that are modeled in CM?

Ryan

[Conscript Bagger]

Originally posted by Mattias:

Does any of you know that this MG assistant thingy is in fact a design feature of CM or are you just speculating wildly?

M.

It would appear to be deliberate:

RudeLover has it correct. The difference is what weapon the assistant gunner holds. In the Mot squad it is a Kar98k, in the Heavy SMG unit it is an MP40. Therefore, the FP ratings of TWO Kar98ks are deducted from the LMG ratings for the Mot squad and 2 MP40s are deducted from the LMG ratings for the Heavy SMG unit.

For example, look at 500m. We have rated a single LMG42 at 19 FP at 500m. Since an MP40 is not capable of shooting at that range, the two LMGs in the Heavy SMG Squad have no deductions, and therefore the combined FP rating is 38 (19 each). In the other two examples Hofbauer pointed to the assistant is a rifle man, armed with a Kar98k with a FP rating of 1 at 500m. So a single LMG42 has a rating of 18 and two have 36. You can do the math for the other ranges and it should work out just fine like this.

Hope that clears things up

Steve

From http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=012023

[russellmz]

Originally posted by Panther G:

In the Heavy SMG squad firepower table, it shows the two MG42 LMGs as having only a firepower of 40 (together) at 40 meters. Then the table goes up to 78 (together) at 100 meters. What gives...?

Ryan

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/016184.html

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/012023.html

http://battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/001741.html