Kingfish Posted July 8, 2000 Share Posted July 8, 2000 Greetings all, Having just finished a blind PBEM game of one of the pre-made scenarios, I wanted to ask a question about "pad-locked" units during set-up. My question is: can you un-lock them to take advantage of different set-up deployments? The reason i ask is that having played a game with pad-locked units, i now know what and where these units are if i was to start another game. Doesn't that ruin any FOW for subsequent games? Your thoughts? ------------------ The dead know only one thing - it is better to be alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted July 8, 2000 Share Posted July 8, 2000 Yes you can do anything you want. Just go to the scenario edirtor and call up any scenario or operatio you want to change around and experiment with eth parameters. However you should save it under a differnt name (i.e La Fiere 1, La fiere 2, etc.) Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted July 8, 2000 Author Share Posted July 8, 2000 Thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEF BUNGIS Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 IMO, I hate PAD LOCK set up. Unless you are making a truly historical recreation of the battle, there should be no reason what so ever to force a pad lock set up on a scenario. And even in historical recreations, you can't get down to the last hour of the actual attack. I think this is one feature that should be used only in very limited situations. ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 On the other hand, the padlock allows a wise scenario designer to force intentional difficulties on the player. Sure, you may know (or strongly suspect) that the enemy tanks are going to be coming through this path or valley, but your AT guns are way over *there* and there's no time to move them. Real commanders faced this kind of problem all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Martyr: On the other hand, the padlock allows a wise scenario designer to force intentional difficulties on the player. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I agree with Martyr here. It also enables the designer to force the AI to leave some units where he wants them to be. Or to introduce a number of specialist units (e.g. snipers) to simulate an outpost line, without the possibility that they are being used for anything else. What I don't like is when you have a hypothetical scenario where almost all the units are padlocked - but then again, if someone goes to the trouble of designing a scenario, I would assume that they put some thinking into this. My £0.02 ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 Padlocking has a purpose, just as every other tool in the game. It can be abused, just as every other tool in this game (Is there an echo in here ?). A big part of the fun of CM is being able to set up your units as you want them to enter into battle, just as a real commander would. So it should be used sparingly. As Andreas and Martyr have so aptly noted, there should be good reason for this function to be utilized. Some legitimate reasons would be. (1) Fixed defenses, such as pillboxes, bunkers barbed wire and mines. Remember, if you don't padlock these and you give that side to the AI, it will move them around. You may have fields of fire that you want them to cover for the enemy advance. And that is essential to good game play. Case in point. The Stolberg campaign. Before I padlocked the forts, the AI was putting them in some very strange places, like across the river. They had good visibility for part of the map, but none for another. This made for an easy US win. (2) Historical accuracy, as DB mentions. Some history burdened designers feel that the only way to play this scenario is with every unit in more or less the spot it was in the battle (Wittmann scenario and Wittmann operation). Then you must use it. (3) Unit facings. I have a scenario where an attack is being conducted from both the east and the west. Now the units in the center, when under AI control, are always rotated by the AI to north-south. I had no other choice but to padlock them. Otherwise, these tanks are profiled when the scenario begins and while they are turning to face the enemy they are shredded. Other than these three reasons, I see no purpose in padlocking units. Did I miss one? ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester/Designer Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 In most historical scenarios you are playing the part of a commander who has arrived at that time and place with that confluence of forces and in that situation due to cirumcstances either beyond his control or within his control and given what he knew at the time the setup he made more or else fit the bill. (I.E. La Fiere starts out with the US Rifle company strung out in march column along 300-400 meters, given a similar situation that that CO found himself in you would have done the same thing.) As the scenario designer you can only make sure that a scenario is historical at the point and time where the first shot is fired. However personaly I think a scenario where you have a setup and on the first turn you are in heavy contact is a bit restrictive. I prefer a movement to contact for some minutes or turns before combat starts. (Defense is maybe a different situation.) CM allows you to go in and remove the padlock if you want, scenarios are not locked as uneditable. However if you design a few yourself for outside consumption you will reliable that padlocking units is a very valuable tool when ttrying to set up a historical scenario. And certainly it's a vital tool when dealing with the AI portion of a scenario. Cheers... Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEF BUNGIS Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 Well I don't dispise PAD LOCK set up, but it is kind of frustrating when you have a whole platoon, including support weapons, PAD LOCKED somewhere with about 2 meters LOS. Oh, then when you hit "GO!" they are dug in and you have to issue them movement orders out of thier fox holes. (hey those damn idiots dug in and can't see 5 feet in front of them) Hehe, sounds like typical modern Army doctrine. No doubt about it, in some situations PAD LOCK must be used. And probably most of the time for historical accuracy. ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted July 12, 2000 Share Posted July 12, 2000 In creating a scenario, I had placed a tank dug-in (because I kinda wanted it there ) but didn't padlock the sucker. And the AI moved it during setup! Arrgh! So, yes, padlocking is sometimes necessary. I read there is a bug that, during setup, you can choose a non-padlocked unit, bring up the orders menu (spacebar), hit the plus or minus keys to cycle through your units, and when you come to a padlocked unit, the option to move it is supposedly there. I haven't tried it, though. BTW, has anyone heard anything lately about the new patch (1.03?). I'd read it might fix the bug where units that have exit points refuse to leave the map. I have a scenario featuring a convoy. It's essentially finished (though I'm the only one who's tested it yet), but it's currently broken because of the bug. If you're bored and want to try it anyway (note the AI doesn't handle the German convoy properly), it's at: http://users.erols.com/chare/cm/ - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEF BUNGIS Posted July 12, 2000 Share Posted July 12, 2000 Wolfe, I will be more than happy to test it when I get back from the bush. Be back on 22 July 00. Gotta go do my Army stuff. Goin to the jungle, gonna eat alot a peaches. ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbg2112 Posted July 12, 2000 Share Posted July 12, 2000 Not really on topic, but I thought I'd point out that you can still control the facing / orientation of pad-locked units. This is esp. useful for bunkers, etc. I realize it's there on the menu, but I tend to stick to the keyboard so I never see the menu.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DEF BUNGIS: Wolfe, I will be more than happy to test it when I get back from the bush. Be back on 22 July 00. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Cool, thanks. Hopefully the patch will be out and my scenario fixed by then. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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