St Mere Eglise - ROWII

[CombinedArms]

Another option if you want to shift the balance a little more toward the Axis would be to simply keep the Stugs and shift the ground conditions to damp.

[Stixx]

Combined Arms

Thats an idea too i guess.

Historically the armor didn't leave the road for fear of bogging and that is currently represented quiet well with the wet ground.

Again a toss up between historical accuracy and playability.

Stix

[John Kettler]

Stixx,

Something you, the grogs and scenario designers might investigate is the Ostkette and its presence on the Western Front. I'd swear I've seen pictures from there of vehicles so equipped. If not familiiar with them, they're track extensions much like the late war U.S. duck bill grousers and were fielded in direct response to mud and consequent bogging on the Eastern Front. By extending the "footprint" on the ground, they act to reduce ground pressure, thus the likelihood of sinking into the mud, as my armor did to my profound detriment in your scenario.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Stixx]

Well if they where in CM i'd research it to see if they where used JK

I'm almost positive it was Marders that attacked St. Mere-Eglise though.

[John Kettler]

Stixx,

If I'd had Marders, my armor losses would've been even worse. Marders don't button worth a hoot! His 60mm mortars would've eaten me alive.

Ostketten fur dem Engine Rewrite!

Regards,

John Kettler

[gredeker]

Originally posted by Heavy Drop:

My condensed AAR. Maybe add a couple of items for thought pertinent to play as the Allied Commander.

Saint Mere Eglise AAR

Heavy Drop (Allied) vs. Redeker & BigX (Axis)

Hey HD,

I'm glad to know that my replacement was able to continue with the well-placed high-velocity insertion of vodka-soaked Georgians from the Ost penal battalion.

Oy - this is the first time I've posted in weeks. I miss CM, but I'm glad that Big X was able to step up to the plate. Thanks, Big X!

Greg Redeker

[Spanish Bombs]

SME AAR - played as Allies vs. John Kettler

Setup: Another great map, looks like difficult terrain in which to attack, hopefully. Great troops - often

overloaded with ammo, crack and vets, lots of heavy buildings in which to hide out. I make a couple of choices up front: 1) Aside from a few MGs and sharpshooters, I have most of my troops behind the first rows of buildings. There are plenty of heavy buildings in which to hide and shoot, and this way I can hopefully neutralize any armor advantage he may have. 2) I place a lot of my squads in woods or in potential defensive positions in the town, outside of buildings. Once the foxholes are created, I will run them into heavy buildings in the first turn or two. I don’t know if the foxholes will help in any fighting retreat, but they won’t hurt. 3) Finally, I embark one of the AT guns on a jeep, giving at least some availability of movement. Here goes nothing.

Turn 01: Tons of armor, at least one of which is an assault gun trying to take down one of the outlying buildings. Fine by me. I lose only a sniper, but only a sniper or two makes himself visible. Lots of armor, and mounted infantry.

Turn 02: OK, a second Assault Gun joins in on the building assault, and by luck? decimates a MG crew. I now see infantry, very close to my lines, but I haven’t shown myself, overall. It is nerve-wracking trying to draw him in close, but I have to do it, since I can’t slug it out at a distance with this force composition.

Turn 03: He has a LOT of armor moving, but at least they are getting within choke points where hopefully I can get a ‘zook round or two on him. Plus, he will have to use infantry to get into the buildings, and I’m waiting for that. I get a few glider reinforcements for the next turn, I’ll try to hustle them across the board to protect my right flank, where, all of a sudden he is moving. A dozen or so heavy shells land at the cross roads.

Turn 04: Some contact, he moves 3 Stugs or Assault Guns right down the road. I get a few side shots at distance with a 57mm, but no luck. They are mostly area-targeting buildings, which I don’t really mind, especially when the buildings are empty. Squad vs. squad in the two outpost buildings, I suspect they will draw fire from guns next turn.

Turn 05: His armor is having to move off road, which is the goal, and the roadblock is taking its effect. An AT gun gets a shot off at the flank of a Stug, but misses, and will have another shot in the next 60 seconds. I lose my split advance squad quickly. On my right, a lone MG takes fire from repeated infantry units, but is outnumbered. I continue to buy time while his infantry and armor is drawn into my defense in earnest.

Turn 06: That StugIII is nailed early on. I also get about 6 shots at another with a ‘zook team, w/o success. Still, his infantry is striking serious resistance, and I have plenty of ambush opportunities for his armor. Things are getting interesting.

Turn 07: Perhaps the terrain is starting to separate his infantry from his armor, but I lose too much (2 MGs, a bazooka team), for the casualties I am causing. Some pretty heavy artillery is landing on my left. The extra ammo will have to count in this one.

Turn 08: I lose a whole squad at the crossroads holed up in the rubber, but sacrifices like these have enabled me to get into defensive positions. Again, some unused buildings are collapsed. At least on the left, I have temporarily saved the gun positioned there. There is a huge amount of German infantry on the board now, when are they going to get that armor off the beach?

Turn 09: I am pressed just about everywhere - on my right, into the first big buildings there, and in my center, where the rubble is piled high with American corpses. My foremost AT gun is now flanked by a building with the shattered remnants of a German squad and my MG. I have platoons running full speed into protection, but there is a lot of ground to cover, yet. For a turn, though, his armor is relatively quiet, as the outer buildings and AT guns provide some buffer.

Turn 10: Lots of shooting, but nothing major: I continue to whittle away at his squads, from heavy, interior buildings. Things are static for now, and am hoping that he moves his armor a little closer to the action in order to bring it to bear…

Turn 11: I can tell that I am causing more casualties than I’m taking: I lose men from squads, but he loses whole squads. I also take out a HT (loaded, at that). In a building on my right flank, there are two American platoon leaders, two reduced American squads, and two shattered German squads, all of whom are under fire by adjacent squads. Some intensity!

Turn 12: More of the same, I flush out the Germans from the aforementioned building, wiping out one squad and routing two more. My morale is dropping quickly due to the casualties, but nowhere are my lines facing imminent disaster - I’m holding on for dear life, but haven’t lost my grip yet. His armor continues to shell (and hopefully waste precious HE on) buildings which are unimportant to me. My ammo reserves are worth their weight in gold.

Turn 13: The line holds, as I shift between heavy, sheltered buildings for the purposes of getting some fire on his incoming infantry. His artillery lands toward his own troops, and does not cause me major distress. He continues to take down meaningless buildings on the outskirts of the town, presumably for purposes of opening up sightlines to my forces inside, but they are all still protected. Several German squads break and beat a retreat.

Turn 14: It seems that he is hesitating during the first 45 seconds of the movie, but I find out why in the last 15 seconds, as smoke starts spreading across my left. I actually don’t mind this, it may draw his armor in closer, it isn’t HE, which is much more deadly in my opinion, and it blocks the view of his armor too. Either way, I don’t take many casualties, but don’t cause too many either.

Turn 15: Stand and fight. German infantry does not get too far into the village, but there are spots where I am beginning to take losses. He send troops to my far right, where the glider platoon has taken position. The smoke is dwindling, and his armor is moving closer, perhaps I can get a shot off in a turn or two. I only lose 1 morale %, and no victory %, and my opponent cites my ‘withering’ firepower, so things go well for the time being.

Turn 16: Moving into crunch time, my infantry still generally stands its ground, but he has over a platoon into the big road in the middle. I had never meant to contest that ground, to do so would have been folly with his armor still about, but it is still intimidating to see at least a platoon of 13-man sturmgruppe squads in my front yard. On my right, I send a squad out of ammo to the building at the edge which serves as an anchor, where it runs into another German squad and a platoon leader. I get the better of them there, but it won’t be permanent. The movie ends with a cliffhanger between a 57mm gun and a PzIV?, both of which miss their first shots.

Turn 17: I win the faceoff, with the first shot. The wall is proving to be superb cover. He has a number of squads in the crossroads of the city, and at least one Stug and one SPW on the outskirts. I seem to have blunted the push to my right, but there is big arty landing there, too. Nowhere is there an imminent breakthrough of his infantry, and I have support at most critical places. I haven’t received so many reinforcements as I would have liked, but I have little to complain of thus far.

Turn 18: OK, maybe luck really is on my side here. The Stug, which I had figured I would get in a turn or two, I get with my very first ‘zook shot, and at a distance, too. His other, mobile AFV is a SP gun which is far away, and shooting smoke, which might indicate it is out of HE. Either way, it is almost down to an infantry fight, and although he has full squads which have gained the buildings, I am pretty close to even on the numbers, and have some reserves to commit toward the middle of the roadway into the city. Plus, he can’t move in the open without feeling my small arms fire.

Turn 19: The general integrity of my lines holds, but I lose a squad and most of a company commander unit to his Sturmgruppes down the road in the middle. I knew giving ground would allow him to take advantage of the heavy buildings, but I am also causing casualties, and it is good to see some of those squads with only 5 or 7 men left, although at least one is full strength. He is falling back on my left, and status quo on my right.

Turn 20: His push is on in the middle, and he gains a building or two, but at a fairly frightful cost. Not much happening on the flanks, everything collapses into the middle, and there I think I have him pretty well fended off. I will begin to push him back where I can, and otherwise hold the line.

Turn 21: His sturmgruppe assault appears to have been blunted, but he apparently still has some artillery left, which eliminates a ‘zook team and one 57mm AT gun, that was out of HE anyway. I am finally starting to run out of ammo on my right, and have a few rounds left in the middle and left. Finally, a 60mm mortar is dueling it out with a SP gun? at about 300m, and the mortar has lots of rounds left, but the SP gun apparently has only AP left. This might be amusing.

Turn 22: I lose one guy from the mortar team, and do not yet hurt the SP gun. The lines remain relatively static, although I can tell that I am causing casualties in his infantry. It is good to see those 13 man squads either broken and heading to the rear, or down to one man, or eliminated altogether. It does not appear that he will reach the flags in this game, although he still is landing arty, and to some effect.

Turn 23: Still nothing between the gun and the mortar, although there is now only a yellow line from the mortar, so I’m thinking he is immobile and out of ammo. My lines are relatively thin on my right, but I think he would need some armor or another platoon to force the issue there, and I suspect he has neither. Still some heavy duty arty landing on group of buildings on my right, including a Heavy one with ** on it. I have a platoon HQ there, broken and scrambling to make it out before the next round lands.

Turn 24: My opponent seems to have closed the book on the aggressive assaulting. Beyond the static situations on my right and center, a few squads move in the open on my left, but they pose no real threat as of yet. A heavy building goes down from the heavy arty. I take a grand total of 1 casualty this turn, but don’t cause any, either.

Turn 25: I’m not certain that he doesn’t get the best of me casualty-wise, this turn, but then he doesn’t make any ground. On my right, and maybe in the middle, he is in position to make a late push, but I suspect his troops are harried and out of ammo, so I’m fairly confident I can hold the line. My victory % doesn’t move, but I lose 2 GM pts.

Turn 26: The remnants of his infantry pushes forth on my left and center, and I cause more casualties than I take this turn, and still no ground given. It may come down to hand to hand combat, but I’m fairly well positioned around all victory flags. 120 seconds left.

Turn 27: I nearly wipe out two sturmgruppe squads which push down the center road. I don’t take much by way of casualties until his arty starts landing near the flag at my center near the end. One of my squads is broken and suffers 3 casualties from the incoming fire. At least for this turn, he has not made a last ditch effort on my sides, and my center has held. I may just come away with a victory here, but I would be in no position to keep fighting past 30 turns or so.

Final: A tactical victory. No last ditch effort, and both sides are fairly low on ammo. A look at the map lets me know that he did have some infantry assets remaining, especially in the heavy buildings on my right. Still, I have an equal in numbers about there, although perhaps not so much ammo. In the short run, his immobilized tanks are a benefit to me, as they don’t play a role in the assault. In the long run, I wish they had not been immobilized, but had been killed, as it would have meant more points on my side. None of the victory flags were ever really challenged, and the excellent defensive positions coupled with the well equipped veteran (and better) troops present a difficult task for the axis in this game.

A very fun game to play, maybe a bit balanced toward the Americans. If the Germans had maybe another tank or two, it may have made it much closer, but then all the German armor on the field was made incapable one way or another by the end of the game.

[wbs]

As y'all may or may not know, St. Mere Eglise was captured by the 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment (82nd Airborne) under the command of Col. William Eckman.

His Granddaughter, Katie Eckman, is a good friend of mine as she and I run in the same running club here in the DC area (and MAN! is she one HOT babe!).

Katie has some of her grandfather's papers (and photographs taken in the ETO) and has shown them to me--pretty interesting. Her brother has the rest of his personal papers.

I'd post Katie's photo here on the board, but I'm not sure how.....

[ October 24, 2002, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: wbs ]

[Mick_Oz]

The following is my (travel delayed) AAR for St Mere Eglise.. a battle which I enjoyed immensely:

[Mick_Oz - (Axis) v Uber General (Allies)

6 June 1944

To: Gen Lt Karl W. von Schliefen

GOC

709th Infantry Division

From: Major Hans Wohl

Commander/709th Georgian Battalion

Sir:

I realise that you are extremely busy amidst the widespread reports of Allied paratroop landings in Normandy. However, you will be pleased to learn that after a fierce engagement, we have recaptured the Cotentin town of St. Mere-Eglise, briefly held by crack and elite units of the American 82nd Airborne Division. The town is again under complete German control.

The following is my report on this engagement, which was marked by dogged resistance on the part of the enemy and great gallantry by our German fighting men:

Preparations: Initial intelligence on the disposition of enemy forces within St. Mere-Eglise was that the bulk of the enemy force would consist of elite airborne units, probably concealed in heavier buildings and wooded areas. No armour was believed present but I was extremely concerned about anti-tank guns and mines.

Available to me for the initial infantry assault, ordered to begin shortly before 0700, were the better part of two rifle companies of mixed experience (some green), backed by a company of sturmgruppen. I could draw on artillery support, courtesy of two spotters (81mm and 155mm) from the 457th Artillery Battalion. They had many rounds available, especially the 155mm spotter, but there would be long delays in Time on Target. However, the FO's had calculated three pre-plotted target areas as likely concentrations of American defenders..and these strikes could be delivered within a minute at most [three TRP’s available]. I also had at my disposable a number of StuG III G’s and StuH 42’s… seven in total.. from the 709th Anti Tank Battalion.

Plan of Attack: I determined that the obvious path of approach to the town lay through the wooded areas along my left flank. It offered cover if not concealment nearly to the town’s perimeter. My worry was that the enemy would also deduce this as my likely path of approach and be waiting in strength. I was also concerned about a possible US artillery strike against my men if I concentrated my force in the left woods. Nonetheless, the other choices were even more unpalatable. There was no concealment to speak of in the fields on the right while the centre offered a dash across a wheat field to a central wooded area where the enemy could be waiting with supporting fire from the town.

I therefore determined to mass in strength on my left as follows: G and I platoons would lead the assault, with G split into half scouts for scouting purposes. These platoons were largely comprised of green troops with a few regular squads as well. They would be followed by J platoon in support. Their mission would be to quickly locate and pin the enemy.. and perhaps lead him to think that my men were widely inexperienced.

These lead elements would be followed by a full company comprising one rifle platoon (also reg/green) and the armoured fist of two veteran stuurmgroupe platoons (13-man squads).. with anti tank and heavy mg teams advancing in support. My goal was threefold: quickly pin and overwhelm any advance defending units… rattle the defender with a rapid advance en masse and gain an initial foothold in the comparative safety of the town perimeter…

In the left/ centre, five tanks, StuGIII’s and StuH42’s, would provide fire/smoke support with suppressive fire against enemy buildings. They would be assisted by pre-plotted 81mm and 155mm artillery strikes against town perimeter target areas. Two platoons of infantry, meanwhile would advance to centre woods led by half squads.

On the right, I ordered a demonstration/feint by two tanks preceded by a wafer-thin infantry shield. To their immediate left.. concealed by a wooded strip, I placed a third sturmgruppe platoon, with two halftracks in support.. these units would advance on the centre through wheat once the far left mass attack was in progress. I planned to swing the two Stug III’s on the right in toward the centre as the attack made headway… however, one subsequently became bogged and immobilised in the wet conditions. This also happened to another of my tanks on the left.. although it still managed to deliver some effective fire against enemy buildings. I was careful with my armour and did not lose any tanks during the entire engagement… where possible, they were always screened by friendly infantry looking for anti-tank threats.

The Assault

My lead units were only slightly delayed in jump-off. However, to their surprise and that of the enemy as well, I and G platoons immediately struck advancing crack US airborne troops in the left woods. Though taking initial casualties, they held their ground and killed the elite platoon leader’s hq team… this proved decisive as the crack and vet para squads soon broke and ran leaving another enemy rifle platoon to be chewed up by my arriving sturmtroopen. On the German side, I platoon was effectively destroyed, G platoon was two thirds gone and another one or two rifle squads were in bad shape. But they had combined to rout crack and vet enemy airborne units. My men now poured up through the left woods unobstructed.. gaining excellent support base position for the assault on the town’s left perimeter.

Meanwhile, under smoke and barrage fire from my armour.. H platoon gained the strip of woods directly in front of the town centre. My 81mm spotter fire on a wooded area in town was quite effective.. I later found it had knocked out a 57mm anti-tank gun and very probably routed enemy infantry. I later followed up in same spot with 155mm fire.. devastating that position, which had been reoccupied by determined, if foolhardy, US infantry.

Seven or eight minutes into the fight, I was reinforced by two rifle platoons which I sent to bolster the centre. H platoon by now was taking fire from several enemy positions in town buildings. With difficulty .. and methodically.. this resistance was overcome through combined tank, infantry and artillery fire. My men in the left woods were able to pin and flank some defenders, alleviating the suffering of the

Germans in the ‘hornets nest’ in the centre woods. My two halftracks were hit and abandoned.. perhaps it was mg fire or fire from an anti tank gun.. I could not tell. My tanks by now were advancing up the main road which appeared clear of mines and at risk of bogging, I sent one over to support the left centre at edge of scattered trees. My right feint was now exposed as such and I sent the units swinging to the centre. I was preparing now for assault on the town proper.

This was achieved a few minutes later (Turn 9 or so) as my crack and vet sturmtroopen squads occupied the first building.. under cover of smoke.. other German units made it to a patch of woods at the edge of the town.. confirming an eliminated vet US para squad.. lying smack atop an artillery target reference point. But I was running into trouble in the thinly held centre and right.

Enemy fire routed most of F platoon.. which had initially covered my right feint… as they ran to identify anti tank threats in perimeter buildings and woods. It took concerted tank fire.. and the subsequent elimination (by a brave platoon leader) of another gun to stabilise the area.

Essentially, the rest of the battle entailed the methodical elimination of several enemy strongpoints as I brought pressure to bear on the left… driving deep down the flank for the main VL identified as our primary goal.. towards the rear of town. My centre forces then broke right and occupied that now vacant sector..as the enemy retreated in disarray. My 155mm artillery completed the rout of the enemy … knocking out a last gun placed on the road over the main VL.

One incident deserves particular mention, however. A careless advance by several Axis squads on a heavy building to the immediate west of the main north-south road led to heavy casualties.. as fire from several crack US para squads decimated my men approaching from woods. The fire was galling and I had few nearby men in support. Providence intervened however. Apparently, the backdraft from an enemy bazooka unit in the building set it ablaze. The enemy para units poured out in confusion and were mown down by my men, who were quite happy to return the favour. The enemy general later confided to me that this encounter was decisive in the collapse of his defensive position.

At the end of the engagement, the enemy was routed from the town .. and all positions of importance were occupied by German forces.

It is apparent to all that if the enemy had recourse to artillery and mines the result would have been less decisive. And it must be said that barring carelessness and/or bad luck affecting German armour, his position was not a strong one. The German assault should succeed with the resources at its disposal. With hindsight, my opponent may have been better served if he had not attempted to establish a largely unsupported defensive position with valuable troops far in advance of his MLR. This may have succeeded against a weak German advance in that sector but as it happened, the bulk of my force was concentrated there as I have stated.

Message Ends//////////////

Axis Minor Victory… Axis 63/Allies 37

GERMAN LOSSES:

274 Casualties (67 KIA)

Men OK – 173

2 Vehicles Knocked Out (halftracks)

ALLIED LOSSES:

266 Casualties (55 KIA)

Men OK – 67

2 Mortars Knocked Out

3 Guns Knocked Out

2 Vehicles Knocked Out

[Holien]

Hi,

It would be interesting to understand why Uber decided to launch an attack through the woods.

When one is defending it is best to defend until you know that it is time to attack.

Moving troops through woods at night is not a good thing to be doing.

I have seen no report from Uber, did he post an AAR?

H

[Mick_Oz]

Originally posted by Holien:

I have seen no report from Uber, did he post an AAR?

H[/QB]

He emailed one to me but I don't believe he posted it. Probably best that you contact him directly.. I'm sure he would be happy to either post it or email it to ya.