Rocket artillery BUG + another strange thing

[Dschugaschwili]

I haven't noticed any thread about this, so forgive me if this one is already known.

I'm using the German version of CMBB in case this makes a difference.

1. I noticed that Russian rocket artillery spotters always fire all their ammo in a single volley, even if they have extra ammo (set by the scenario designer) that exceeds the number of tubes listed in the info window. German spotters (who have more ammo than tubes by default) work as expected.

Now, either the Russians should have a reload delay between salvos or this is intentional, but then the listed number of tubes should probably read "unlimited" in the info window..

I haven't tested other nations.

2. The manual states that the assault command is useful for covering the last few meters (I don't have the manual with me right now, so the exact wording may be different). However, I can't issue an assault order after any other movement command, and non-assault waypoints can't be changed to assault. I can plot other movement orders after an assault command though.

Now, this defeats the usefulness on the last few meters because I either have to assault all the way to the objective or cancel all orders when I get near the objective and plot a new order, having my troops sit in the open during the command delay. Obviously both methods are far from good.

Is there a reason behind this? I can't see any. :confused:

Dschugaschwili

[Andreas]

1) I just see this as another laucher being available. Not perfect, but still okay.

2) I am not sure if this is a bug. I think it could be explained by saying that in order to undertake an assault, you have to reform your men, since they will arrive strung out after movement. That reorganisation would be done during the command delay.

[CMplayer]

Originally posted by Dschugaschwili:

However, I can't issue an assault order after any other movement command, and non-assault waypoints can't be changed to assault.

The only reason I can think of for it being this way, is if BFC intends that the assault command-delay time goes to passing around grenades to the right people, having a last quick look at the enemy position, and deciding who's going to do what (if that isn't already drilled in). So for this reason you can't add the command to the top of a stack of waypoints. Still, since it is so tiring, it would be good to allow some other kind of move first, before converting to assault.

[CMplayer]

...oh and what Andreas said too...

[Dschugaschwili]

Originally posted by Andreas:

1) I just see this as another laucher being available. Not perfect, but still okay.

If that's intended, I'd still say that there shouldn't be a number of tubes listed if this value doesn't have any effect on the gameplay.

On the other hand, did the Russians really use only single-use launchers (because that's what you're effectively implying)?

2) I am not sure if this is a bug. I think it could be explained by saying that in order to undertake an assault, you have to reform your men, since they will arrive strung out after movement. That reorganisation would be done during the command delay.

Of course, you can't afford to have your men sit on open ground 30m in front of a trench line "reorganizing" for the final assault, so this seems like a moot point to me.

Dschugaschwili

[Pak_43]

"The manual states that the assault command is useful for covering the last few meters (I don't have the manual with me right now, so the exact wording may be different). However, I can't issue an assault order after any other movement command, and non-assault waypoints can't be changed to assault. I can plot other movement orders after an assault command though."

I understood the "assault" part of the command only happens in the final few metres of your assault order movement line... the first x metres are your guys covering the ground to the point where the "assault" is made ie. a few metres before the end of the command line... therefore your HQ's can only issue the "assault order" not mixed in with any other movement orders... (ie "Go and take that treeline!") I issue assault orders from around 100 - 200 metres away against a heavily suppressed and panicky enemy... I suspect that you are issuing assault orders from considerably nearer?

[Foxbat]

Originally posted by Dschugaschwili:

If that's intended, I'd still say that there shouldn't be a number of tubes listed if this value doesn't have any effect on the gameplay.

On the other hand, did the Russians really use only single-use launchers (because that's what you're effectively implying)?

They didn't use single-use launchers, but their launchers would be limited to single-use because of the long reload times (the lightest rockets weighing 8kg's on a 36 rail launcher) and because they weren't going to stand around to reload them in place because of counter-battery fire.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Foxbat:

...they weren't going to stand around to reload them in place because of counter-battery fire.

Yeah, it's kinda hard to miss where a rocket barrage is coming from.

Michael

[CMplayer]

Originally posted by Dschugaschwili:

Of course, you can't afford to have your men sit on open ground 30m in front of a trench line "reorganizing" for the final assault, so this seems like a moot point to me.

I respectfully disagree. This is exactly what infantry would do, assuming the open ground they're lying in has some dips or stones they can take cover behind. Of course it also helps if they have supporting fire on the trench line, esp grazing fire from an MG and sharpshooters.

Further, 'assault' in the game refers specifically to an organized attack. So getting the men into formation is necessary by the very definition of the command.

I assume you're worried about the survivability of the troops while they wait for the command delay to tick out, but in my experience troops can fight and survive for a time in open ground in CMBB as long as they're not unsupported.

Since this sort of assault is premissed on their already having some degree of fire ascendency over the defenders in the trench it seems to make a lot of sense the way BFC did it.

[Dschugaschwili]

Originally posted by Pak_43:

I issue assault orders from around 100 - 200 metres away against a heavily suppressed and panicky enemy... I suspect that you are issuing assault orders from considerably nearer?

I did a test on this. A fit rested squad becomes tired after about 90m of assaulting over open ground. Do your men really reach their destination without getting totally exhausted if you let them assault over 150m?

Dschugaschwili

[Dschugaschwili]

Originally posted by Foxbat:

They didn't use single-use launchers, but their launchers would be limited to single-use because of the long reload times (the lightest rockets weighing 8kg's on a 36 rail launcher) and because they weren't going to stand around to reload them in place because of counter-battery fire.

The Germans seem to reload in place in CMBB, with reload times up to 5 minutes for the big stuff.

I'm wondering if there should be a difference between different nations in this matter.

Dschugaschwili

[Foxbat]

Originally posted by Dschugaschwili:

The Germans seem to reload in place in CMBB, with reload times up to 5 minutes for the big stuff.

I'm wondering if there should be a difference between different nations in this matter.

Dschugaschwili

Smaller rockets, less tubes (6 at most) and actual tubes instead of open rails (on the nebelwerfer). So a smaller launch signature and a quicker reload time, making on site relaoding a more possible and less hazardous undertaking.

Also the "big stuff" was fired from it's own packing crates making reloading an easier proposition.

[ October 11, 2002, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: Foxbat ]

[Andrew H.]

I'm pretty happy with how the assault command works. I think that the most common time I have used it is in attacks in the woods. Specifically, a platoon moves through the woods using move to contact and encounters an enemy squad at, say, 25 meters. After the enemy squad is suppressed - possibly at the end of the turn in which they were first encountered, or perhaps after an additional turn of just being shot at, I'll send one squad with assault instructions to take them out of their foxhole.

Something I've been working on for attacks across open ground where I'm not sure about enemy resistance is using shorter (20-50 meter) advance commands. That is, if I have to cross 100 or 150m into a place where I believe, but am not sure, that there are enemy units hidden. That is, instead of giving my men a 100 meter advance command (to the line of trees or whatever), I'll give them a command that will take them half or 1/3 of the way there (with one or more platoons in overwatch).

I'm not yet sure if this is a better approach than simply crossing the 100 meters at one bound, but it seems like it might be. An added advantage is that, if necessary, I could issue an assault command for the last bit instead of an advance command.

The purpose behind the shorter advance commands is to make the crossing more survivable if there are unspotted enemy squads in the cover toward which I am advancing. Does anyone know whether this approach is better than just advancing across the entire open area?

[Michael Emrys]

Andrew, have you tried giving them one long move to contact order with a hide command at the end? That way, if they spot an enemy unit, they'll immediately stop and hit the dirt.

That might keep them from taking so many casualties in the open...then again it might not. Just an idea. There's also the problem of their stopping if they spot an enemy unit that isn't a threat to them.

Michael

[ October 11, 2002, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Michael emrys ]

[Agua]

Originally posted by Dschugaschwili:

Do your men really reach their destination without getting totally exhausted if you let them assault over 150m?

Dschugaschwili

Honestly, doesn't the manual state something about assault being useful for covering the last 20m or so? Assuming you've got more than a single squad, try "advance" while utilizing running or bounding overwatch among the squads within the platoon, then assault at the very last few meters, rather than a continuous single order "assault" covering that entire distance. Note that you can use the pause key during the "advance" portion to give your guys a little rest at the start of each turn while they still put out the firepower. I haven't observed any reduction in morale during the pause, only a momentary halt of the movement.

[Michael Emrys]

Thanks, Agua. That sounds like the best idea. I think I'll give it a try.

Michael

[Dschugaschwili]

Thanks for all the replies concerning the assault command. I will have to try your suggestions, although I must confess that I have a bad feeling about having my troops stop on open ground only a few meters from an enemy position.

Now, the russian rocket artillery thing. I still think that they should either have a reload delay or show something like "unlimited" as number of tubes.

Dschugaschwili