Michael Emrys Posted March 13, 2002 Share Posted March 13, 2002 Originally posted by Grisha: Guys, you want to fly ground support on the Russian front? Get Il-2, then I've got a roll of bills for to do just that if the buggers will ever get off the dime and write a port for the Mac! Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted March 13, 2002 Share Posted March 13, 2002 Will German cluster munitions be modeled? Details are available in the scarce Paladin Press reissue of GERMAN EXPLOSIVE ORDNANCE, which among other things covers all the German aerial bombs, the pioneering antipersonnel cluster bomb units using 5 cm mortar rounds as the submunition, and the SD 50 butterfly bomb. I'd provide the full nomenclators, but unfortunately, I lent the book a long time ago to a cop in bomb disposal who suddenly went through a horrific divorce and dropped out of sight. Will the Dinort rods (fuze extenders for max destructive effect) be modeled? Will similar Russian weapons be modeled? I believe there was a crude antiarmor cluster munition called PTAB or some such. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreigner Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Actually, the Soviet PTABs (AT bombs) were not "cluster" bombs, as they were not fastened together in any way - they were just piled up inside Il-2s' bomb compartments. Since they were small (the designation 2.5 probably stands for 2.5kg/5lbs of weight), you could fit many of them inside, and when released, they fell in a fairly long stream. They utilized a shaped charge, and struck from above - on the thinnest top armor, at angles close to 90º. If deployed correctly, that practically doomed any armor in their path - some 40 m long, IIRC. I've also read an account of Po-2s successfully using PTABs to attack concentrated German armor in the Korsun operation (February 1944, I believe). The surprising thing is, this trainer-turned-light-night-bomber-reconnaissance-and-much-else was used during daytime, as low overcast prevented all other, more "serious" aircraft - both Soviet and German, from operating successfully. I know the occurence might be too rare to deserve modeling in CM:BB, but imagine the tension for the German player from knowing that even overcast weather is no 100% guarantee against air attack. By the way, despite its flimsiness, Po-2 could carry up 350kg of payload - the regular bombload for Il-2 was about 500kg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Foreigner, I appreciate the information very much. "Washing Machine Charlie" as tank killer? Wow! Imagine how exciting such an attack might be if the Po-2 throttled back the engine and glided out of the clouds unheard until too late! There's a great episode of the M*A*S*H syndicated TV series which deals with "Washing Machine Charlie" in the Korean War. Every day at dusk he comes winging over the camp, engine sputtering, and drops a single small bomb, which not only never hits the intended target (a minor supply dump) but is the source of a betting pool. Trouble ensues when the sanctimonious Major Burns brings in an antiaircraft gun to deal with the intruder and violates the Geneva Convention by arming a disarmed place. If you've got solid info on the PTAB or anything else along Russian ordnance for CMBB lines, you might want to ping BTS directly. That kind of thing doesn't grow on trees. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major LardLad Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 There's a great episode of the M*A*S*H syndicated TV series which deals with "Washing Machine Charlie" in the Korean War. Coincidentally, that very episode is on in the UK tonight (March 14th), on the Paramount Comedy Channel at 19:00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grisha Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Well, if BTS wants info on Soviet ordnance, then I might be able to get them from Russian sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreigner Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 John Kettler, I am glad you found my post interesting. Unfortunately, most of the sources I've used inthe past are not readily available now. I believe there's a host of other people around who would be in a much better position to provide hard info. But I can share from memory some curious tidbits about the Po-2. The first Polikarpov's design for a training aircraft was a failure. The man took it to heart, and his next plane had a number of almost astonishig features. It would not enter a spin, unless deliberately forced into one; to recover, one just had to let the flightstick go and watch the plane do the rest. Flight instructors are rumored to have told their students "not to interfere with the plane flying". With the engine off, the plane could glide for a long time, since its rate of descent (the speed at which it lost altitude) was half that of a parachuting man. This feature made them almost undetectable in night raids (until the bombs started falling, of course). It also enabled them to fly low and slow, improving accuracy, so IRL "WMC" probably would have gotten that supply depot. As it were, as light (night) bombers Po-2s were employed to strike at field headquarters, communication facilities, and other "point targets", often zeroing in on the glowing cigarettes (you'll be surprised from how far you can see them in a dark field, away from city lights). Who said smoking was not hazardous? In fact, it was Po-2s that opened the Berlin Operation in 1945, even before the artillery barrage. Initially it was belittled, even ridiculed by both sides - the Germans called it "Russian Plyboard", the Soviets - "Corn Farmer" (the equivalent to "Crop Duster"). But the "drafted trainer" earned its respect. There were rumors among German foot soldiers of a silent plane that could see in the dark, hover over the target, and fly in reverse, and the all-female Po-2 regiment was known as the "Night Witches". The Russians called the plane "King of the Air". With all that, Po-2 had one terrifying drawback - if set on fire, it burned down completely in less than a minute... The plane enjoyed a long life - IIRC, although officially discontinued, it was still produced on a small scale well into the 60s. Hope this made for a fun (if long) reading. Best regards, Foreigner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Johnson-- Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 Ah yes the flying sewing machines. Harry Turtledove has one of his main charcters in his World at War series who was a "Night Witch". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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