MG 34 or 42

[Lars H]

I know that it was the MG 34 that was mounted on the german armor. But what kind of firepower does it have in CM, the same as MG 42???

[jasoncawley@ameritech.net]

They are pretty close, and I would assume the game treats them the same. The main reason the 34s were used on the vehicles, leaving the 42s for the ground troops, was the superior ruggedness and reliability of the later type (MG42). It worked better with sand in it, in other words.

[Lars H]

does it have the same fire cadence??

[jasoncawley@ameritech.net]

No - the english term is "rate of fire", but I understood what you mean. The MG 42 had a much higher "cyclic" rate of fire, 1500/minute, vs. 850/minute for the MG 34.

Most often either type was fired in bursts to prevent overheating, though, so this didn't make as much difference as you might imagine. Often it meant a 2 second burst from one, or a 3.5 second burst from the other. On vehicle mounts, the MG 34 also had access to more ammo without pauses for belt changes. The MG 42 also required more frequent barrel changes, another side effect of the high rate of fire.

The main reason the MG 34s were still used, is simply they 350,000 of them had already been made. They were used on the vehicles because they weren't as sturdy in the field. They also cost twice as much to make as the simpler MG 42. Incidentally 415,00 MG 42s were produced, from '42 to 45, so the numbers available of the two types, were similar. Since some were undoubtedly lost of worn out, probably 1xMG34 to 2xMG42 was the ratio in the late war period covered by CMBO.

A fine question by the way...

[Lars H]

first of all thanks for you help, when i was in the danish army I once tried "the danish" LMG and TMG, LMG we just called LMG , but it looked like the german MG 42 (I noticed it in Saving PR ). And the TMG was an american browning, I think they said that it was first used in the korean war, but it look very much like the one that the U.S. troops have in CM. My question is then is it the same LMG as the german used, and is it the same TMG as the americans used in WW II?

thanks in advance

[jasoncawley@ameritech.net]

The modern M-60 machinegun in U.S. and NATO service is based on the German MG 42. It was copied after the war and minor changes made, and eventually it was adopted as the standard light and medium MG type.

They actually toned down the rate of fire on purpose, however, because the ammo consumption and frequency of barrel changes was so high. The M-60 is used as an LMG with a bipod on the end, and as an MMG with a tripod mount.

The Browning .30 cal you saw was probably the same basic weapon as the U.S. WW II MMG, yes. Minor changes perhaps. That was also the standard vehicle mount MG in the U.S. army in WW II, along with the .50 cal - the coaxial and hull MGs of the tanks, for example, are basically the same gun.

Browning made both the U.S. .30 cal and the U.S. .50 cal, in WW II and after. The M-60 did not replace the .30 cal Browning until Vietnam, and the Browning-designed .50 cal is still in service.

[CATguy]

The browning 30cal has not seen any changes real changes since 1919 except for the air cooled version (late 30's) which was not as effective as a fixed placed weapon as the liquid cooled was in rate of fire. The mg34 was a superb weapon and served the Wehrmacht well in the early war years. The Mg42 was revolutionary in design and the manufacture process was simplified by stamping instead of machining the receiver, block, stock...etc. To dispell a myth, the M60 was not based on the mg42 and in comparison are totally dissimilar in design and concept, but to be fair it is quite possible that the designers looked upon the mg42 with favor but that is where the similarity ends. well I could keep talking but I like to keep these short...

[Pak40]

I seem to remember something about the shape or size of the MG 34 being better suited for fitting into tanks. Perhaps it was the shape of the barrel or something like that.

[Der Kriegsherr]

I've heard many say that the M60 was a copy of the MG42, but I've always wondered why they don't look alike. Is that notion really a "myth"? How do we know?

Too bad the M60 is out of service. Anybody interested in seeing a MG42 should head to Bosnia-Herz/Kosovo. They are still around over there. Don't try to bring one home, though! Your explanation that you need to do research for a computer game won't get you through Customs! I guess they don't play computer games.

[Lars H]

Do anyone know a site with pictures of the MG 34,42 and 60, so I can compare them??

[CATguy]

mg34.com still sells dummy kits and you can still buy both mg's and a slew of other foreign nation mg weapons kits with the receiver cut. I believe the going price for a cut mg34 is around $400 and this is the bipod version. I know you can still buy fully operating version but this takes a classIII license. There are a few machine shops that do sell a receiver for semi-auto operation but this still requires a FFL to put this together plus a whole slew of other forms to fill out. Ammo is real cheap for these though and you can even still find 1940's ammo quite readily (8mm or 7.92 if you prefer).

[jasoncawley@ameritech.net]

MG 34 and MG 42 pictures here -

http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust5.htm

M-60 pictures here -

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m60e3.htm

[Guest Michael emrys]

Originally posted by jasoncawley@ameritech.net:

The MG 42 had a much higher "cyclic" rate of fire, 1500/minute, vs. 850/minute for the MG 34.

You real sure about that, Jason? I've seen various figures quoted for the MG 42, but mostly they seem to fall in the range of 1,000-1,200 rpm.

Of course, that's still a lot.

Michael

[Guest Michael emrys]

Originally posted by Lars H:

...when i was in the danish army I once tried "the danish" LMG and TMG, LMG we just called LMG , but it looked like the german MG 42...

Which, if I am correctly informed, is no accident. IIRC the Danish army purchased the MG 3 from Germany. That weapon essentially is the MG 42 tidied up for modern usage. I think it has a slower ROF, for instance, and various modifications to use NATO ammunition and to ease production.

And the TMG was an american browning, I think they said that it was first used in the korean war, but it look very much like the one that the U.S. troops have in CM.

No, it was used in WW II as well.

Michael

[jasoncawley@ameritech.net]

Am I sure? No, of course I am not sure. I never fired the thing, let alone counted the rounds with a stop-watch. One source gave 1500/minute. C'est tout. Could be that the 1200/minute figure is more accurate. How would I know which was, and which wasn't? LOL. But what is 5 rounds a second more or less, on top of ~20. Any way you slice it, "high".

[Mlapanzer]

I aways thought the M-60 was based on the mg-42. Even when I was in the U.S. Army they said it was. I would like more info on this Please.:confussed: Just another myth?

Also on another note. In the U.S. there is a manufacturer making Browning 30 cals in simi-auto only. No need for any special license either.They sell for around $1500 if memory serves me right. Can you imagine mounting that on top of your SUV and standing out the sunroof behind it.

[CATguy]

As for the Browning 30cals (1919) in semi-auto. They are readily available for 1500 and more. Most of these weapons are from overseas armories (chile, Italy, turkey, etc...). To import them they have the original receivers cut but otherwise they are complete intact and a majority of them date from WWII era surplus. My latest find is a M3A1 grease gun in "semi-auto" I picked up for a little over $700, it is all original and stamped 1946 except for the receiver and barrel which are new.

[Ellros]

The mechanics and action of the M60 are based on the MG42, but the outer casing has been changed of course. That's why they don't look exactly alike.

The MG3 used by the Bundeswehr (as Michael Emrys said) is the near carbon-copy of the MG42.

------------------

"No matter where you go, there you are"

[Stefan Fredriksson]

Lars, your LMG is basically an MG42 as far as I have understood it.

Your TMG is the Browning M2 .50 cal.

Has been around since ww2 aswell.

The modern successor of the MG42 would be the FN-MAG (Swedish - Ksp58, British - L7, US - M240...), rather than the M60, is it not?

[pford]

According to the series "History of the Gun" on the History Channel, the US M-60 is partially based on the MG42. I am probably using the incorrect terms, but the MG42 loading and firing mechanism "inspired" the M-60 while British designs were use for the barrel.

[CATguy]

Yes this is correct, The design process perhaps may have been inspired by the MG42 but the mechanism, the gas/recoil systems on the M60 is very unique and modern compared to the MG42.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by CATguy:

The browning 30cal has not seen any changes real changes since 1919 except for the air cooled version (late 30's) which was not as effective as a fixed placed weapon as the liquid cooled was in rate of fire. .

Canada was using the Browning .30 cal M1919 until just a few years ago; we rechambered them to fire 7.62 NATO, though. Good little gun, from what I hear.