Eden Smallwood Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 A 'shreck which is out of ammo, and is commanded to Hide, will nonetheless come *out* of hiding when a tank is in his Armor Arc. Dude- "A+" for following orders, yeah? But if you're out of ammo... you can stay hidden. Really... it's ok... the fuhrer would understand. Cancel his arc and he'll hide fine, but still I would suppose this matters for those units told to hide, with arcs, who fire when they can, and then run out of ammo. Eh? Eden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 It's simple: the troop AI has been turned into crap, in comparison to CM:BO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jussi Köhler Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by Bone_Vulture: It's simple: the troop AI has been turned into crap, in comparison to CM:BO.Thats a bit harsh. Do you have anything to back uo your claim with??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by Bone_Vulture: It's simple: the troop AI has been turned into crap, in comparison to CM:BO.Exactly where do you get that from? And why are not you retreating that out of ammo shreck team off the map, or at least out of harm's way anyhow? WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Sorry, I'm just starting to lose my patience when almost everyone seems to disregard the "ambushing HQ teams turn suicidal" phenomena. There's absolutely no logic in this AI behaviour, and the fact that the problem didn't exist in CM:BO seriously ticks me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 The reason why I disregard the "ambushing HQ teams turn suicidal" phenomenon is that I have never experienced it. Even without covered arcs my men never seem to have problems staying hidden. Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by Dschugaschwili: The reason why I disregard the "ambushing HQ teams turn suicidal" phenomenon is that I have never experienced it. Even without covered arcs my men never seem to have problems staying hidden. Well lucky you, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by Bone_Vulture: Sorry, I'm just starting to lose my patience when almost everyone seems to disregard the "ambushing HQ teams turn suicidal" phenomena. There's absolutely no logic in this AI behaviour, and the fact that the problem didn't exist in CM:BO seriously ticks me off.Well I'd be ticked off if they took it away. I like my ammoless schreck to sit up and attract the attention of nearby tanks. It renders the tanks combat ineffective for at least 1 whole turn while they blow that worthless schreck team to smithereens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 double post (stupid 'back' key) [ October 25, 2002, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: CMplayer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by CMplayer: Well I'd be ticked off if they took it away. I like my ammoless schreck to sit up and attract the attention of nearby tanks. It renders the tanks combat ineffective for at least 1 whole turn while they blow that worthless schreck team to smithereens.What?! I fail to see the connection between Panzerschrecks and HQ teams. What are trying to say? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by Bone_Vulture: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by CMplayer: Well I'd be ticked off if they took it away. I like my ammoless schreck to sit up and attract the attention of nearby tanks. It renders the tanks combat ineffective for at least 1 whole turn while they blow that worthless schreck team to smithereens.What?! I fail to see the connection between Panzerschrecks and HQ teams. What are trying to say? :confused: </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbaker Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 There are, I think, a number of tac AI bugs that will get worked out over the next coupla' patches. Games are complex systems and a limited testing staff will never be able to catch all of the little things that an audience of thousands will glom onto (and then complain about over and over ) ... But as long as we're talking about tacAI bugs, I've noticed a couple that bother me. i) When you're using area fire to suppress an area while you advance troops towards it, sometimes the suppressing unit will cease fire when the friendly unit is within the area (which they should) and other times they don't. For instance, if I advance a squad out of a halftrack towards a light building and area target the building with the HT's mg, sometimes the mg will let up when my guys enter the house, sometimes it will keep firing and supress my squad. It may be that this is as designed and that there are complicating factors I'm not taking into consideration. Am I missing something? ii) Sometimes units don't fire, when really they should. For instance, I'm advancing a platoon across an open field with a heavy mg covering them. An enemy squad opens up and suppresses a bunch of my men, all the while the heavy mg blithely watches in full LOS of the enemy and doesn't target them until I manually tell them to in the next orders phase. I believe (anecdotally) this tends to happen more when the enemy is towards the extremes of the "effective" range of my machine gun (when the firepower rating is, say, 20-30 or so)... Still, I'd rather my heavy mg throw some of it's huge ammo load at the enemy chewing up my guys than just watch. And again, this is something that the AI handles fine in some situations and doesn't execute well in others. I doubt that I'm the first to bring up either quibble. Has the forum figured either out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Smallwood Posted October 25, 2002 Author Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by wwb_99: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bone_Vulture: It's simple: the troop AI has been turned into crap, in comparison to CM:BO.Exactly where do you get that from? And why are not you retreating that out of ammo shreck team off the map, or at least out of harm's way anyhow? WWB</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tondu Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Eden Smallwood has a point. Here is something else to consider. Personally, I have tried to hide a panzerschreck team after it has destroyed a close-by russian tank only to find out that the knocked out tank triggers it's cover arc and won't allow it to hide anymore. Try it yourself. (The flag was over the crest of a hill for the russians to go over. A perfect place for an ambush, but once it happened, I couldn't get it to happen again --even when the russians came over the crest of the hill piecemeal.) I hate it when it does that. Even still, I still love CMBB. I bet it'll get fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Now now, remember the supreme and final answer to all these questions and more... It ain't perfect, but two outta three ain't bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by bbaker: ...if I advance a squad out of a halftrack towards a light building and area target the building with the HT's mg, sometimes the mg will let up when my guys enter the house, sometimes it will keep firing and supress my squad.I had this happen once in BO. Since then, I've tried to be careful to turn off any area fire into a space that I intend to move my troops. This can require delicate timing sometimes to ensure that the enemy troops don't become unsuppressed in the meantime. C'est la guerre. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by Le Tondu: Personally, I have tried to hide a panzerschreck team after it has destroyed a close-by russian tank only to find out that the knocked out tank triggers it's cover arc and won't allow it to hide anymore. Try it yourself.Did you consider adjusting the covered arc so that the knocked out tank was no longer in it? This could involve moving the Schreck some also. I suggest this as a temporary remedy. The behavior you describe should be fixed. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Bone Vulture, if you have such a problem with the HQ's and hiding why don't you stop sidetracking other threads, do some tests and send me the files and explain to me whats going on? NO ONE else is seeing a problem but you but if its real and you can replicate it and prove your findings with some saved games then I will have a look and see what we can do. Thats how things get done around here. You think its broke, fine, now show me and I will have a look. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by Madmatt: Thats how things get done around here. You think its broke, fine, now show me and I will have a look."BUT DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD! IT'S BROKEN!" Ok, seriously: thank you for the attention. I will play several infantry QB's defending (ideal for testing the ambushes), try different variables, and get back on the topic if the phenomena reoccurs. I'll keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Kloss Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by Madmatt: [QB]Bone Vulture, if you have such a problem with the HQ's and hiding why don't you stop sidetracking other threads, do some tests and send me the files and explain to me whats going on? NO ONE else is seeing a problem but you but if its real and you can replicate it and prove your findings with some saved games then I will have a look and see what we can do. ---------------------------------- It also happened to me - several times. Everyone stayed hidden, but HQ oppened fire. So do not say "NO ONE" please, instead have some closer look... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaud Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 This is probably because, during the round, the HQ has better spotting capability than the other units nearby and so sees and reacts to the enemy first (bino's affect this, maybe ratings and other experience too dunno). This is because, during the turn, there is a kind of psuedo-relative spotting going on in CMBB that keeps a spotted unit noticed only by those that actually spot it. I think this is new to CMBB. Not as good as true relative spotting, but a nice addition nonetheless. To insure this doesn't adversely affect you, put your HQ's out of sight, or hide them without covered arcs. If you do this, they will not open fire first (or at all, till you command them too). Personally I will never let HQ's fire except when I direct them to during orders phase: they are high value targets so should be protected as long as possible. I hope madmatt will correct me if i'm wrong in why hq's sometimes open fire first (I never experience the problem because I hide hq's without covered arcs and assign them targets during orders phase if at all). Ren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by Renaud: To insure this doesn't adversely affect you, put your HQ's out of sight, or hide them without covered arcs. If you do this, they will not open fire first (or at all, till you command them too). Personally I will never let HQ's fire except when I direct them to during orders phase: they are high value targets so should be protected as long as possible.This is pretty much what I do as well. I did have one scenario where I needed to keep an HQ up front to spot for some mortars, but I gave him a really restricted CA, like with a 15 meter radius, and had no problems with him opening fire. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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