German tanks and vehicles for dummies

[Omi]

I thought this would be included in the book that came with the game, but there is no unit guide that gives a basic description of units and their use on the battlefield.

Does anyone know a site where I could find something like that?

[Sergei]

www.achtungpanzer.com

[YankeeDog]

There are others, but Achtung Panzer! is one good site that offers good descriptions of the Development History of various German AFVs. It will certainly get you started, anyway.

Cheers,

YD

[Omi]

Thanks for the link, it's very good, but I'm looking for something more simple and closer to the game. What I really need to know is which vehicle should be used against what and vice-versa. Honestly, I don't know what to do with 90% of the game's armors and vehicles. As an example, what's a Lynx for? Is it Anti-personnel or anti-tank?

[Brightblade]

In the very most cases you can guess from the gun what the vehicle is good for.

High blast rate -> anti infantry

High armor piercing rate -> anti tank

The Lynx was meant for recon in real life and that´s what it´s good for in the game too. Its 20mm AutoCannon can take out most Allied light armor and is sufficient to pin some infantry.

BTW, here you find some very nice charts with important data on the units in the game

[ August 03, 2003, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

[Joachim]

Gun calibre: The number after the L, e.g. in 75L24 is the length of the barrel in comparison to the diameter. So 75L24 is 75mm times 24 = 1800mm = 1.8 m.

Short guns tend to be AP (anti-personell), long ones are better for AT (compare 75L24 vs 75L70) with only a slight or no reduction in AP capability to their shorter brothers. Guess the short variants were only short as the turret did not accomodate the longer version and one needed a big HE chucker - the larger the diameter, the much bigger the shell, the bigger the bang!

A big&long gun means good AT capability, a short gun is AP only (with some exception called HollowCharge or HEATammo)

Big armor means the thing can withstand some punch.

IIRC You usually can see the armor and the gun in the purchase screen. Once bought, check the stats regarding amror and penetration what is good.

BTW: The more MGs and ammo for them, the better.

PzI is just some mobile MG-nest

PzII is a light tank. Used as tank in the Blitz (39/40), only recce in Russia or '44

PzIII tends to be "the" AT-tank when it gets the 5cm gun (1941) till the arrival of the PzIIIn (late '42 IIRC) with the short 7,5cm gun while the

PzIV "short" is an AP tank until the arrvial of the PzIVf2 "long" with the long 7,5cm gun (mid '42), which is a dual-purpose tank, just like the

PzV Panther and

PzVI Tiger

The StuG variants are AP only for 75L24 early war) and 105L?? guns (StuH). Brummbär or anything with the 150L10 is AP, too.

All other StuGs are dual purpose.

Jagdpanzer (Hunting tanks, Hetzer, Jagdpanzer IV, Jagdpanther) are well armored turretless armor, Panzerjäger (Marder, ashorn) are thin skinned mobile AT guns.

Captured French tanks are from 1940, so usually crap. Well armored tanks in 1940, popguns in tin coffins in 1944.

Now to the real question: What is a good tank?

A good tank is fast, well armored and has a good gun in a fast turret. If it is faster, can penetrate the enemy frontally at ranges where the enemy can't hurt its front and swing the turret around fast to catch those enemies tryaing to sneak up on the flank, the tank is better than the enemy . Anything else depends on the tactics you use. A Stuart duelling it out at 1000m with a Panther is not a good idea. At close ranges that may be diiferent. Learn the strength and weakness of each tank and use it accordingly.

So aside from the gun and armor, you have to check turret speed (as in : How fast can I turn to face a new threat) and speed (How fast can I cross that dangerous place and get in the enemy's rear.

The tactics must fit the tanks you have, or you must buy the tanks you need for your tactics, which usually depend on the terrain and enemy.

Is speed important? Is the slow (or no) turret rotation a problem (dense terrain, low viz). Do I expect enemies from the flank or only from the front? Am I gonna flank (then speed is essential) or will it be a frontal slugfest?

There is no solution for all circumstances.

Gruß

Joachim

[Omi]

Thank you very much for the help. I'm learning slowly by playing. I'll win a battle eventually = P.

[JasonC]

I'll take a stab at it.

Super heavies - King Tiger, Jagdtiger, Jagdpanther. These are rare specialist armor dueling machines. Their guns will kill anything. In most cases only the heaviest Allied AT weapons have a chance, and marginally improved models need side shots. The Jagdpanther is borderline on the protection side, though. The HE strength of their rounds is also high, but that is not their main purpose. They are so expensive you can only have a few. The King Tiger is turreted, a significant advantage.

With all of them the biggest problem is distraction tactics - turning to engage the wrong thing, then getting whacked by somebody else from a blind side. The main defense against this is a narrow field of view to present only front armor, at long range - called "keyholing". Once enemy armor weakens, they can come out and kill everything. But there is no point in advancing them beyond the point where they can see some enemy. Their guns are just as deadly clear across the largest maps.

Heavy armor - Panther, Tiger I, Jagdpanzer-70. These are the standard improved types. All are monsters against typical vanilla Allied tanks, but they have some weaknesses against the better Allied guns (tank destroyers etc). Their guns are generally lethal to all but the heaviest opponents, meaning Jumbos and thick Churchills from the front.

Their own armor weaknesses are various. The Panther can be killed through the turret front by tungsten ammo, British 17 pdrs, or US 90mm (Jackson and Pershing). At close range, about 250m, the US 76mm can also kill with plain AP. In addition, the sides and rear are thin, with even light guns effective (37mm, 40mm, zooks, PIATs, 75mm). The Panther upper front hull is practically invunerable, though.

With the Tiger I, any improved gun is dangerous, though the US 76mm can fail at medium or long range due to shell "shatter". The strength is that the side armor, at 80mm, is thick enough to be useful against all the light stuff. Zooks and 75mms need flat side shots, close.

The Jagd-70 has highly sloped rather than particularly thick armor. Its sides are vunerable, much like the Panther. From the front it is vunerable to 90mm and 17 pdrs. You will see occasional "sticks" from other guns (lower front hull hits e.g.).

All of these cost a fair amount, 150-200 points per vehicle. The Tiger has the best anti infantry ability, and its stronger sides make it somewhat safer to advance with closer to the enemy. All still do best dueling at long range, fully exploiting their killer guns and protecting their sides. They are still definitely optimized armor fighters.

Next come the standard Jagdpanzer IV and the Hetzer. These are cases of cheap sloped armor, with decent guns themselves and armor that is thin on the sides, but well protected in front against vanilla Allied AT weapons. Better weapons can KO them, though. Anti infantry ability is limited (not a lot of HE and little MG ammo).

Think of them as specialized, "poor man's" anti-tank armor. The Jagd can carry men and has a somewhat more useful ammo load, and its sides aren't as vunerable as the Hetzer. It also has a better rate of fire because it isn't as cramped. But the little Hetzer is cheap and a small target.

Below this tier in quality terms comes the "plain vanilla" class of armor, Pz IVs and StuGs. These aren't well enough protected to stop zook rounds or 75mm AP from the front. They can kill standard Allied types, but not thick Churchills or Jumbos. (At long enough range, intermediate types like the W and W+ Shermans get tough, too).

Basically though you get a capable gun in a moderately vunerable platform, but still a true AFV. Arty or mortars or 50 cals are not going to take these out. The StuGs are cheaper than the Pz IVs, in return they lack a turret and have less ammo depth vs. infantry, particularly MG ammo.

At the bottom of the tank fighting ladder you get the Marders, and their larger cousins the Nashorns. These are paper thin self propelled anti tank guns. They die if you look at them funny - only small arms ammo won't hurt them. The Marders have the same gun as the previous 2 categories, while the Nashorns are the most extreme case of the "eggshells with hammers" phenomenon - they have the gun of a King Tiger in the armor of a Marder.

These are hard to use well in CM. They basically have to get the first shot. Lacking turrets and with it being rather hard to hide any vehicle in CMBO (aka impossible), this requires good driving and a fair amount of luck. I'd avoid them.

All of the above are meant to fight enemy vehicles. Next come a whole bag of types that fall into the category of "HE chucker", meaning their primary purpose is to throw big firecrackers at enemy infantry. These have only marginal anti tank ability - though some are better than others - and their armor tends to be poor. The StuH-42, Hummel, Wespe, SPW-251/9 (75mm gun armed halftrack), and PSW-4 (75mm armored car) are all in this category. All are much cheaper than the specialized tank duelers, and pack significant infantry killing punch for their low cost.

The Hummel is like the Nashorn, but for infantry. Meaning it is very vunerable (I've lost them to 50 cals on jeeps), but its round annihilates whatever it hits. They sometimes carry a tiny number of HEAT rounds ("C" ammo), which can kill any tank. Even their HE is capable of killing light vehicles, and easily smashes infantry in any cover. The rate of fire is slow, but against infantry 1-2 shots will be all any position needs. Hummels are hard to use for the same reason as Nashorns. These are opened topped, so mortars and arty can hurt them.

The most forgiving of the HE chucker vehicles is the StuH. It is not well enough armored to duel tanks, but at least it is a real AFV. The front armor will even stop 37mm and 40mm AP. It is fully topped and proof against 50 cals. Its HE is strong, 105mm, and the ammo load is good. It often has a few C rounds, which will kill the common types of armor, if they manage to hit.

The Wespe is a Hummel with only a 105mm gun and a small ammo load. Cheap, but usually a StuH is a better idea because it will live longer.

The SPW-251/9 and PSW-4 75mm HTs and ACs are lesser entries in the same category. They too are vunerable to most shooters. Their own HE is weaker, only 75mm, the same as typical tank guns rather than especially powerful. They have to make up for that by firing for full minutes or two at a time. The PSW is marginally better because its front armor will withstand 50 cal fire, an important edge.

What both really have going for them, though, is they use "vehicle" category points rather than "armor", which makes it possible to take a number of them in combined arms forces without reducing the strength of your other armor.

The thing to understand here is that the Germans have a way of using their strong armor and these cheaper HE chuckers. The strong stuff tries to win the armor engagement, "running the table", in the sense of KOing every vehicle the Allies have. Then the HE chuckers come out, now practically unopposed, and add their cheap weight to the fire of the specialized duelers. That can double the infantry killing consequences of winning the armor war. Without doubling the cost.

81mm mortar halftracks are in the same basic category. For most purposes the direct fire 75s will work better.

The last major class of armor is all for scouting, bait, and keeping enemy light armor or jeep MGs away from your own forces. Collectively, "light armor". This includes the Lynx, the 20mm PSW armored cars, the Puma 50mm armored car, 20mm halftracks, Flak vehicles, and MG only halftracks. The last also help move around heavy weapons and towed guns, and Flak can help drive off the odd fighter bomber.

Of these, only the Puma's gun can kill anything serious and only with side shots and such. The rest use autocannons or MGs. The autocannons can be extremely accurate and fire very rapidly, but have minimal effect on anything but light vehicles. Against those they are great. The armored cars are protected against 50 cals from the front, and all are basically immune to infantry small arms, but anything made to kill vehicles that hits these types will knock them out.

The uses of these are as a screen against light vehicles. They can hose down enemy infantry, but don't expect to do more than keep them pinned as long as you keep up the fire. The armored cars tend to have better ammo loads than the halftracks, as well as being better protected in front and faster on roads. The Lynx is a fine entry in this category; its one great drawback is that it costs "armor" points rather than "vehicle" points.

Don't overinvest in the light armor. A pair of them is typically sufficient.

MG only halftracks are a slightly different matter. Their best use is hauling the slower heavy weapons around. Especially on map 81mm mortar teams, which don't fit on the back of tanks. But also HMGs, PAK-40s. A good way to buy a few of these is to purchase one armored Panzer Grenadier platoon and dismount the men. The 4 SPWs you get that way can lift all the heavy weapons of a motorized Pz Gdr company, along with 2 HQs to spot for the mortars and command the HMGs.

There are many more nuances to the use of each item, naturally. Each enemy weapon system is effective against some but not others. The more you know, the more you can arrange lopsided matchups that you win without danger. But those are the basic categories of German vehicles and where the useful types are within them.

I hope this helps.