Moriarty Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 While playing a winter QB, I stumbled into an interesting occurrence. On the back edge of the map on my left flank I had a 105mm HOW targeting rough ground being traversed by my opponents INF. The target area was approximately 450m away on a slight rise. My opponent informed me at the end of the game that a round from the 105mm HOW skipped off the rough ground and slammed into a 2-story building, killing half the FO team and disrupting the fire mission for the next four turns. The building was 786m and out of LOS of the 105mm HOW. At the end of the game, my opponent had a rifle squad and platoon HQ in a small, light building approx. 40m from one of the large VLs, which I occupied with significantly more troops. The building was screened from LOS of the 105mm HOW by a small hill. Being the last turn of the game, I decided not to commit my INF to oust his troops from the building. I had sufficient assets to hold the VL. Instead, I targeted the crest of the hill (424m) with the 105mm HOW. Approximately 10 seconds into the last turn, the building blew up. The platoon HQ was eliminated and the rifle squad cut to 2 or 3 men, which were quickly dispatched by fire from 2 SMG squads and an HMG squad. I do not know for certain if it was a round that went long or if it skipped off the crest of the hill into the building, but the coincidence is intriguing. In any event, it’s not a bad tactic to keep in your arsenal if the conditions are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 Interesting occurance but I don't think that was a skip shot. I asked Steve a long time ago if the physics model was going to allow skip shots off the ground because it was a rare tactic the allies used to try and kill a Panzer. The "skipped" AP round would bounce off the ground (since the angle of deflection was near 180 degrees) and strike the more thinly armored underside of a Panzer. Anyway, Steve's answer was no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted June 8, 2001 Author Share Posted June 8, 2001 Pak 40, I do recall some discussions of that. And, I readily admit that the second occurrence could have been just a shot that went long. I'm at a loss to explain the first one if it wasn't a skip as I don't believe the trajectory of the howitzer would have tagged the building if it had just missed the aiming point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 I haven't seen skip shots like that, but I've had some unfortunate accidents with ricochet shots. I once had the shot from one of my Churchills ricochet off a KT and hit the TC of another Churchill close to the action, sending the crew into shock and making it an easy kill for the KT Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moriarty: Pak 40, I do recall some discussions of that. And, I readily admit that the second occurrence could have been just a shot that went long. I'm at a loss to explain the first one if it wasn't a skip as I don't believe the trajectory of the howitzer would have tagged the building if it had just missed the aiming point.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It is possible for a gun to hit something out of it's line of sight, especially with the low velocity guns like the Howitzer. Picture the round missing your targer high. The round will keep going but drop a little, possibly hitting something out of it's line of sight. Usually these rounds land off the map but I can totally see a round actually cresting a hill and then dropping a little to hit a building. I'm not sure if this is what happened but it's interesting. Do you have the movie file? I'd like to see it if you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted June 8, 2001 Author Share Posted June 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pak40: It is possible for a gun to hit something out of it's line of sight, especially with the low velocity guns like the Howitzer. Picture the round missing your targer high. The round will keep going but drop a little, possibly hitting something out of it's line of sight. Usually these rounds land off the map but I can totally see a round actually cresting a hill and then dropping a little to hit a building. I'm not sure if this is what happened but it's interesting. Do you have the movie file? I'd like to see it if you do.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Unfortunately, that turn was pretty early in the game and I no longer have it. I would agree that the round could have missed hitting the target, but I would think that a 105mm round would still be rising 786m out. Maybe not, I don't recall the effective range of the 105mm HOW and, the more I think about it, the angle of the barrel at firing would have a lot to do with it. Maybe t he ricochet formula in CM kicked in? In short, I guess I don't know what the frick happened. hehe. [ 06-08-2001: Message edited by: Moriarty ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 Here's one along the same lines, but weirder. I had a Platoon of Polish Engineers walking up a small wooded ridge, with the flamethrower following behind. The Engineers get ambushed just as they crest by a dug-in platoon on the reverse slope. Now for the weird part. The Flamethrower is still halfway down the slope, definetly out of LOS of the Germans. He fires anyways and the flame goes into the ridge and exits out the other side, routing a German squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moriarty: Unfortunately, that turn was pretty early in the game and I no longer have it. I would agree that the round could have missed hitting the target, but I would think that a 105mm round would still be rising 786m out. Maybe not, I don't recall the effective range of the 105mm HOW and, the more I think about it, the angle of the barrel at firing would have a lot to do with it. Maybe t he ricochet formula in CM kicked in? [ 06-08-2001: Message edited by: Moriarty ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If I recall my physics lessons correctly , the round technically starts falling towards the earth as soon as it leaves the barrel (horizontal shot). But in your case the gun was slightly elevated, so the shell was on the rise when it left the barrel. It's hard for me to say without seeing the movie. The effective range of a 105mm How is several thousand yards (or a few miles), but that has nothing to do with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
printt Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 Interesting topic! I was reading on AGW (Warbirds Board) just yesterday of occurances with skip/ricochet shots used by Jugs (p-47's) to bounce a few rounds into the "soft underbelly" of the Axis armor. Today I went to find the thread to post but it seams that AGW is down today. I will chime in later when I am a bit more informed. I don't remember if the P-47 used it's rockets or it's 8 50 cal.'s though. Which poses a good question... Is a 50 cal AP round capable of piercing the belly armor especialy after "tumbling"? Does anyone have such data..i.e. armor thickness of the bottom? If I am not mistaken there where escape hatches on some if not all tank bellies. Anyone in the know please feel free to elaborate. printt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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