John Kettler Posted August 25, 2002 Share Posted August 25, 2002 The following is taken from www.wlhoward.com and is a minor lift from a newsletter called the Technical Intelligence Bulletin 501 (Sept.-Oct. 2001) published by the Ground Intelligence Center at Aberdeen Proving Grounds. It concerns not only the AT rifle grenade described but some material on a Soviet mine and some comments on some major German weapon references. Regards, John Kettler (Begin excerpt) Waffen und Geheimwaffen des deutschen Heeres, 1933-1945 I was told of an outstanding two-volume set by Fritz Hahn. It answered several questions that I have been chasing for years. I was able to borrow it from the University of Virginia Library through interlibrary loan (published in 1986 and 1987, ISBN: 3-7637-5830-5 and 3-7637-5832-1). I highly recommend it if you have not seen it. It includes production numbers for most weapons and munitions by year as well as a number of photos that I had not seen before. Hahn served with Waffenpruefamt 11 during the war and used primary source documentation to prepare these books. However, it is in German. Russian Grenade Information VPGS-41 Antitank Rifle Grenade Simonov (Vintovka Protibotankovyi Granata Simonov-41) This was a comparatively heavy, fin-stabilized, rod-type grenade. No launcher was required to fire it from 7.62mm bolt-action and semi-automatic rifles. It had a shaped-charge warhead with a base detonating impact fuze. Its poorly designed warhead had a shallow bowl-like cavity, lacked sufficient standoff, and had an almost flat nose affecting its accuracy and range. The VPGS-41 was armed by pulling an arming pin in the tailboom after the rod's insertion in the rifle's barrel. Once fired, using a special KhB launcher cartridge (see below), the drum-type, three-fin assembly slid down the rod and locked in-place in a circular groove at the rod's end. It was little used and was phased out during the war (probably 1943/44) due to its short 50-75-yard effective range, limited armor penetration, and the damage it inflicted on rifle barrels and actions. It is certainly curious, especially considering the extent of the German armor threat, that the Soviets did not replace the VPGS-41 with a more effective antitank rifle grenade; the technology was available. Their 14.5mm antitank rifles were only marginally effective and extremely heavy and cumbersome. Their antitank hand grenades were of limited effectiveness and had a short throwing range. The Soviets had no light, shoulder-fired antitank rocket launcher comparable to the Panzerfaust or bazooka until after the war (they were provided a small number of US 2.36-inch M1 bazookas through Lend-Lease in late 1942 and of course used captured Panzerfausts). Weight: 23.98 oz (680g) Length: 18.2 in (463mm) with rod; head- 4.53 in (115mm) Diameter: 2.36 in (61mm) Construction: rolled steel head, steel rod and fins Filler: 11.5 oz (326g) melinite or trotyl Fuze: base detonating impact Penetration: 1.2 in (30mm) Identification: green head and fins (melinite-filled) or gray head and fins (trotyl-filled) From LTC Bill Schenk: I laid out all of the data that I have on the LMG mine, alongside the VPGS-41. Of almost a dozen English language references, they agree on almost nothing. For the mine, the total weights range from 11 pounds to 33 pounds and the explosive weight varies between .4 lbs to 7.16 pounds. The earliest source with any numbers dates from 1951 and 1958. There is no way to sort this out with the available data. I will try and get a handle on this one when I am in Germany in December. Given the fact that this mine is not mentioned by name in any Soviet references, I am beginning to wonder if our German cousins were reporting on a field-improvised device. However, Soviet records for Kursk indicate that about 1300 (my estimate) of these types were emplaced in preparation for Operation Citadel in July 1943. If you ever come across more info on this one, please let me know. (End excerpt) [ August 24, 2002, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: John Kettler ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruit Loops Posted August 25, 2002 Share Posted August 25, 2002 yes i agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 26, 2002 Author Share Posted August 26, 2002 Bumping this so it doesn't disappear. Guess Rexford's buried on CMBB. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 Regarding Soviet AT Granedes: RPG-40 20mm RPG-41 25mm RPG-43 75mm (stream pressure of 100000 kg/cm2) RPG-6 120mm (Produced since october 1943) Source: Weaponry of Red Army 1999 by V.N.Shunkov ISBN 985-433-496-4 If you need more details let me know. [ August 25, 2002, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: killmore ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 27, 2002 Author Share Posted August 27, 2002 killmore, Thanks for the additional info! Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 28, 2002 Author Share Posted August 28, 2002 Too much of value here to let this one sink. Bump! Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 Originally posted by killmore: Regarding Soviet AT Granedes: RPG-40 20mm RPG-41 25mm RPG-43 75mm (stream pressure of 100000 kg/cm2) RPG-6 120mm (Produced since october 1943) Source: Weaponry of Red Army 1999 by V.N.Shunkov ISBN 985-433-496-4 If you need more details let me know.Isnt the RPG-6 (rocket propelled grenade??) the shoulder fired anti tank round that is used today? I assume that the above stated RPG-6 is different. Chad :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 Hard to say why they didn't develop this or that. Maybe the rifle grenades were considered a thing of the past and not worthy of further developement? Or maybe the german tanks weren't considered such a threat afterall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 Originally posted by Chad Harrison: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by killmore: Regarding Soviet AT Granedes: RPG-40 20mm RPG-41 25mm RPG-43 75mm (stream pressure of 100000 kg/cm2) RPG-6 120mm (Produced since october 1943) Source: Weaponry of Red Army 1999 by V.N.Shunkov ISBN 985-433-496-4 If you need more details let me know.Isnt the RPG-6 (rocket propelled grenade??) the shoulder fired anti tank round that is used today? I assume that the above stated RPG-6 is different. Chad :confused: </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 29, 2002 Author Share Posted August 29, 2002 Bump! Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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