Bog Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 I myself like the JagdPanther the best, with the Jpz IV close behind. The Jagdtiger has a powerful but inaccurate gun, plus it's slow to turn and to aim, and ROF is low. The Hetzer seems like a cheaper Jpz IV, but with less armor. The Nashorn has the excellent gun of the JagdPanther, but it's much more fragile. I like the JagdPanther for it's relatively high speed, and powerful and accurate gun. The Jpz IV I like because it's pretty cheap, and is built so low to the ground it's harder to hit. What are your opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 Marder IIIs on defense. Put them in pairs in ambush spots, and pray that they get the first shot. If they do, there's a dead sherm. If they don't, one sherm has to kill two marders to break even on points. My other favorite is the Jagdpz IV 70(V). A panther gun, low sillouhette, and sloped armor that can stop a 76mm round at least as well as a panther's armor. Put them in the center of your lines, but in a place where they can't take flanking fire. ------------------ Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. The Last Defense- Mods, Scenarios, and more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye3 Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 Well considering I just got my butt handed to me in a Jumbo Sherman (me) vs. JagdTiger (2) and JagdPanther (1) I would say the J-Tiger. Set that baby as far away as possible and there's no need for fast turret type of movement. Then blast away tanks, buildings, garbage cans, old water jugs,soda cans, or just about anything ~Deadeye3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisbech_lad Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 Burning ones... Haven't faced jagdtigers, but jagdpanthers seem a waste. 88mm is too much gun against allies, long 75 will do. So a waste of points. 17lbers can even defeat them frontally. (80 mm armour at 55 slope, but 85% quality = 68mm, 17lber can go through 60mm at 60 slope or so at 500m) Hetzers & Jpz IV are better value IMHO as ambush TDs. Drawback of Hetzer is low ammo. Overall, the Hetzer, a good example of how to alter otherwise obsolete chassis to be an effective weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiJoe Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 Jagdpanzer IV Lang hands down. 109 Gustav: thier armour is at least as good as the Panthers because its 90% instead of 85%. Plus they have better top armour (20 vs 16) to help agianst allied artillery/mortars. Add to the fact that thier silhouette is only 72 vs the Panthers 118 and its a way more survivable afv all round. My fav used to be the Jagdpanther... but after the jumbo got its armour reduced the 75/L70 is more than enough to deal with it and all other allied tanks. So who needs the 88/L71. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Posted February 25, 2001 Share Posted February 25, 2001 You don't fight the British very often, do you? Those Churchills practically beg for an 88. NTM ------------------ The difference between infantrymen and cavalrymen is that cavalrymen get to die faster, for we ride into battle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted February 25, 2001 Share Posted February 25, 2001 Nashorn. Half the price of a Panther, just as deadly. First shot wins. - Pillar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiJoe Posted February 25, 2001 Share Posted February 25, 2001 Trooper: The churchill has front armour of 152mm @ 95% which = 144mm. The 74/L70 penetrates 145mm at 1000m. Considering the standard combat distance for tanks in CM is around 600-750m the churchill is dead meat agiasnt that gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted February 25, 2001 Share Posted February 25, 2001 KiwiJoe: Actually, (Don't know how common this is but) I played a QB against the AI once just to have and see a what if type scenario and...I had two (2) Panthers (1) A and (1) G or G late. Both kept taking shots at a Churchill (152mm armor version) from across the whole map. I donKiwiJoe: Actually, (Don't know how common this is but) I played a QB against the AI once just to have and see a what if type scenario and...I had two (2) Panthers (1) A and (1) G or G late. Both kept taking shots at a Churchill (152mm armor version) and getting hits but not taking her out from across the map. I dont recall the actual distance in meters but, it must have been 600 - 1000 meters. I had no luck in taking out the churchill, so I decided to move both panthers across the map to take out the churchill. Well...I finally got a LOS at under 200 meters and finally knocked her out, but those churchill's are a tough nut to crack. The panther 75 was not as effective at long(er) range against the thicker armor of the churchill (152mm). Would have liked to have seen what a TD's 88 would have done. [This message has been edited by Freak (edited 02-25-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Mike Posted February 25, 2001 Share Posted February 25, 2001 Definitely the JPz IV /L70 ! No prob´s against any type of allied armour. Even Churchill´s get smoked after the second round latest. Low silouette, good point ratio. Sometimes bog too fast, though. Semper Talis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoePrivate Posted February 25, 2001 Share Posted February 25, 2001 Originally posted by KiwiJoe: Trooper: The churchill has front armour of 152mm @ 95% which = 144mm. The 74/L70 penetrates 145mm at 1000m. Considering the standard combat distance for tanks in CM is around 600-750m the churchill is dead meat agiasnt that gun. No, I have repeatedly seen a 75L/70 bounce shots from the front of a Churchill VIII at around 500m, even seen the Panther pop smoke and retreat a few times against them. Any of the sloped-armour TDs such as the Hetzer, JgPzIV or PzIV/70 are deadly and effective. Marders or Nashorns are cheap, good mobile AT weapons, but you better hope you get in the first or second shot! I really don't have any favourite, more a case of playing with different ones for awhile then switching to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted February 26, 2001 Share Posted February 26, 2001 Discussing Marders, here is a useful tip. When you take them, buy the Marder II variety, not the Marder III. It cost 6 points more. But for those wee 6 points, you get about 3 times the HE ammo load. Yes, Marders are primarily for AT work. But after you kill the enemy tanks, you want some tactical pay-off from doing so (besides just not having his tanks in your hair). And 6 rounds of HE, which is all you will get with the Marder III, just doesn't make an impression. It is not a high priority, but the small extra cost brings a "duel purpose" mobile gun, and that can be handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Star Posted February 27, 2001 Share Posted February 27, 2001 Matters who I am fighting. Against the Amis, the ordinary Jpz IV has plenty of punch and great frontal armor. Against the Brits, you need a bigger gun to take out Churchills. The IV-70 does this nicely and is cheaper than the Jagdpanther. When I am cheap, Hetzers are a deal but have limitations. ------------------ "Act after having made assessments. The one who first knows the measures of far and near wins - this the rule of armed struggle." Sun Tzu - The Art of War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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