PzKpfw IIIN 75L24 HEAT vs T34 Front

[rexford]

There were four different HEAT rounds for 75L24, only one was capable of penetrating T34 front hull and that projectile defeats 115mm of vertical plate while T34 front hull puts up:

45mm thickness x HEAT slope effect (1/cosine(60°)) x resistance factor based on hardness.

A graph in one of Ogorkiewicz's books gave data on effective thickness of armor hardnesses against HEAT, and harder armor makes plate more resistant to HEAT. For T34 high hardness armor the increase is about 8%, so T34 front hull resists like 97mm of vertical plate when hit by HEAT.

In a complete turnaround, T34 high hardness armor loses resistance when hit by steel armor piercing rounds due to brittleness, but gains resistance against HEAT cause brittle behavior does not play a role, only hardness.

Hardness, as measured by standard tests where a ball is driven into the plate and hardness depends upon indentation depth and diameter, really is the force that binds molecules together and makes them difficult to move (or tear apart). So the harder the steel the more resistance to melting by shaped charges.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Good. Just make sure Charles knows.

[lcm1947]

OK so are you saying that the PzKpfw III's were effective against T34's or not - overall? I mean how many of the effective heat rounds were available compared to the other 3 rounds that weren't effective. Any idea?

[kipanderson]

Rexford, hi,

As usual, good information, interesting to know the effect of high hardness on HEAT rounds.

Related to the above question, what dates were the different models of 75mm HEAT round introduced?

All the best,

Kip.

[Andrew H.]

Originally posted by lcm1947:

OK so are you saying that the PzKpfw III's were effective against T34's or not - overall? I mean how many of the effective heat rounds were available compared to the other 3 rounds that weren't effective. Any idea?

Rex is talking about the PzIIIN, which wasn't produced until (IIRC) the end of '42 or the beginning of '43. It was armed with the same stubby 75mm howitzer that early Pz IV's had. (I think it was identical to one of the short 75s, although I'm not sure).

This is tank that I wish BTS had included in CM; these tanks were usually attached to Tiger battalions, where they provided close support.

I guess the closest equivalent would be the 250/8 or 251/9 HTs with the short 75s - but the IIIN was a tank with a turret and more better than halftrack-level armor.

(Edit) About 600 were made. I don't know how many served on the Western Front.

[ May 05, 2002, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Hedges ]

[M Hofbauer]

armor penetration of the PzGr 38HL was a recent topic here.

I assume with "the capable one" you are referring to the C - type.

[ May 05, 2002, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: M Hofbauer ]

[Mattias]

In CM:BO the Germans have not been given the most effective HL grenade available, at least not judging by the numbers displayed in the game. BTS hasn't commented on the matter but I assume they had their reasons.

For a lot of talk about the 75mm HL grenades and their effectiveness in combat I suggest..

This thread

Among other things there, on page 2 Claus B posts a detailed list on the production of different types of 75mm ammunition, paying particular attention to HL grenades.

--

As dicey as it was to do combat with HL munitions it seems they gave the Stummels a chance against the Soviet heavies.

M.

[ May 05, 2002, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Mattias ]

[lcm1947]

Thanks Andrew for the reply. Yeah sounds like a shame they weren't included in the game.