Tigrii Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I've heard that sharpshooters are good b/c they have binoculars, only 1 man, etc., but 25 pts for 1 man? No way. Tank hunters only cost 11-13, have 72-100 FP, and can pay off if they scout out a tank at close range. Do you think they would be useful? If not, what else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 The sharpshooters are much harder to spot. I think they are the only CM units which can cross open ground without getting instantly spotted. I didn't re-check for CMBB, though, this knowledge is from CMBO. What about running a short test in hotseat to compare how easy sharpshooters and tank hunters are spotted at different qualities? I already shut down my CM machine for today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KursruK Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by Tigrii: I've heard that sharpshooters are good b/c they have binoculars, only 1 man, etc., but 25 pts for 1 man? No way. Tank hunters only cost 11-13, have 72-100 FP, and can pay off if they scout out a tank at close range. Do you think they would be useful? If not, what else?If the only need you have is scouting, then band for buck you are right, the sharpshooter is not the best. But the sharpshooter has SO many other talents that it is actually quite cheap for 25 points. The sharpshooter is the MVP of CMBB. period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Smallwood Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by Tigrii: I've heard that sharpshooters are good b/c they have binoculars, only 1 man, etc., but 25 pts for 1 man? No way.Man, I thought I was cheap!! You can't afford an extra ten bucks? Hmmm. Well this is an interesting question; I've been a bit remiss with scouting. Glad you brought it up, (ya skinflint! ). Let's see... Tank hunters [...] can pay off if they scout out a tank at close range.Ah, ok. But what seems more likely, that they will be spotted at tank hunting range, or at longer range? The hunters have some SMGs that seem to work well at close range, but if they're spotted by a rifle squad way out West, they're not going any farther... Whose hunters were you considering? The Soviets might be able to take out a HT... Now if a SS spots a tank, or a gun, (or a box?) at long range, he might actually be able to take the dang thing out!!! Wow- I'm sold on the idea! Tonight's game I'm definitely going to try that. Oh, wait- the map is Small this time, dang. But next time... Good idea, Tigrii Eden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSColonel_131st Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I dont know yet how it works in the game, but in reality scouting is definitly one of the purposes of a sharpie. Next would be Recon Squads traveling light. These units are trained for observation and recon. The normal Tank-Hunter Squad would have zero qualifications for recon jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Anyone cares to run some tests in hotseat and post screenshots. Off to work here for me soon, and the speculation doesn't bring us far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shosties Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by RSColonel_131st: I dont know yet how it works in the game, but in reality scouting is definitly one of the purposes of a sharpie. Next would be Recon Squads traveling light. These units are trained for observation and recon. The normal Tank-Hunter Squad would have zero qualifications for recon jobs.A sharpshooter has no quiet means of getting information back to his unit while he is out of LOS other than making his way back and reporting, so it's a bit gamey to send him far out by himself and reap the benefits of borg spotting. {aside} It just occured to me that one can simulate radio-equipped dismount cavalry scouts by using an empty artillery spotter. This might be a useful trick for scenario design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Smallwood Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by Shosties4th: A sharpshooter has no quiet means of getting information back to his unit while he is out of LOS other than making his way back and reporting, so it's a bit gamey to send him far out by himself and reap the benefits of borg spotting.But if LOS, no matter how far, what about hand signals? Basing everything I know about WWII coming from Band o' Brothers, he should be able to communicate "Two Big Ol' Tanks, 200m thataway..." ??? It just occured to me that one can simulate radio-equipped dismount cavalry scouts by using an empty artillery spotter. This might be a useful trick for scenario design.Good one. Too bad that radio seems to weigh about six tons... Eden [ December 17, 2002, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Eden Smallwood ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by Shosties4th: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RSColonel_131st: I dont know yet how it works in the game, but in reality scouting is definitly one of the purposes of a sharpie. Next would be Recon Squads traveling light. These units are trained for observation and recon. The normal Tank-Hunter Squad would have zero qualifications for recon jobs.A sharpshooter has no quiet means of getting information back to his unit while he is out of LOS other than making his way back and reporting, so it's a bit gamey to send him far out by himself and reap the benefits of borg spotting. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSColonel_131st Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Well, for once, I dont know what CM simluates as sharp-shooters. A single guy, or a team with spotter and shooter? Yes, they would most likely have had no radio, but I think we run into the limits here on how much you can simulate on a computer. In real life, unless you are in heavy wood, it shouldn't be totally impossible to communicate per signal with a guy 600 to 1000 meters away...and that's enough separation for my scouting units anyway. I'd agree if you have your recon 2 km ahead of the main line, but that's now how I play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 I've struggled with this recently, in my mind. There's a thread somewhere in here where folks come up with a lot of good self-imposed rules for conducting recon. The most satisfactory approach, just from my personal perspective, is to always maintain command between the scouting units and a HQ. You do run into folks, quite commonly, who will throw half squads waaaaaaaaayyyy the hell away from any other friendly unit. The black "out of command" lines running all over the place must look like spaghetti. I just don't see any way, without a designated radio scout unit (with a decent point cost attached to it), that folks can rationalize intel from troops on the far side of hills and large stretches of woods from any other friendly units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 On the other hand, while the recon flowing back is not realistic, it is realistic to have flanking or advance guys doing damage to the enemy. I certainly don't want to be required to supply each AT units doing flank security for me with a HQ. They just sit there and blow up tanks which roll over them, and they get pretty far from every HQ. Same for halfsquads in front of me. I want to see whether somebody fires on them. And why realistically they couldn't tell me, I would hear the firing. [ December 18, 2002, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 You've got to compromise somewhere (or not). If it doesn't bother you, fine, np. Personally, I make a distinction between flank security where intel gained is secondary to it's job of security, and split squads thrown forward through 300 meters of woods which have no purpose except to exploit absolute spotting. It's a line that I can live with, ymmv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Tigger, Sharpshooters may be MVP for Recon in CMBB. But the *real* MVP for CMBB is the HMG, IMHO. Heck, it'll swap the Sshooter for the HMG for defense anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 At the risk of returning to the original topic, I tend to use both Sharpshooters and Tank Hunters for scouting. Sharpshooters I put more into the on a hill, hanging out recon category. They do well in fairly exposted areas with wide LOS because they are very difficult to spot. I often use Tank Hunters in place of split squads in CMBB to scout 20-40m in front of the main body of a platoon or company. They are relatively cheap and the SMGs make them more livable in many 'incidental contact' situations. In fact, I have made it a habit to buy a TH unit for every 1-2 platoons of infantry to account for the poor short range firepower and organic AT capability of many CMBB infantry types. I use them as a support unit for frontline platoons for either close support or AT support as necessary in addition to scouting. They also make human spotting more difficult as they can easily throw off opponents force estimates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 i like the sharpshooter, the tank hunter, or the half squad. each one has different capabilities. when using half squads, when the squad has just on lmg, i send the half without the lmg ahead; usually just across a road or other similarly-distanced area of open ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Bump for Tigrii so that he can post some test results which show how visible or invible the different scouts are and how much they see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggDogg Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Guys, Scouts for attack or scouts for defense? :confused: On the attack, generally, half squads. They require enough enemy fire to stop them that the enemy will expose something. If sharpshooters or zooks/pzschrecks try this, they might be killed and may not cause any defenders to be seen. On defense, generally, crappie headquarters, sharpshooters, tanks hunters, zooks/pzschrecks, and, if there are not enough of the foregoing, half squads. Of course, this assumes that these guys will pull back before they are fired upon. Cheers, Richard [ December 23, 2002, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: PiggDogg ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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