how do you minimize damage from aircraft?

[NewSocialistMan]

I just played a scenario where I beat the living snail snot out of the Hitlerites only to have 13 out of 15 of my vehicles destroyed by aircraft. I have no AAA and was wondering what measures I can take to minimize damage from aircraft when I replay it.

[noisy]

While not an expert at aircraft evasion, these are the counter measures I have found most effective in order preference. I have only played CMBO as of yet.

1. AA weapons.

2. Move. Move fast and unpredictably.

3. Hide somewhere the aircraft can't find you.

Number 1 is really the best option. Even if you don't score an aircraft kill, it seems like AA fire makes the aircraft less effective.

If I get caught with no AA I resort to dodging around, which I find marginally effective. Last resort is hiding since IMO the aircraft can see nearly everything. I have watched a tank hiding between two closely spaced buildings get wiped out by aircraft who just went ahead and bombed the buildings into oblivion along with the tank.

[Silvio Manuel]

Since you have no AAA...Don't bunch your AFV up. Listen for the plane/s' first recon-only pass. When you hear that, scatter your tanks if they're not already, put them into scattered trees if at all possible, button them up so they don't lose their TC's from strafing or bombs, etc. Am I missing anything?

[YankeeDog]

Even if you have AAA cover, it's best to hide your vehicles when under air attack. Here's some thoughts on how to be inconspicuous when aircraft come around:

1. Listen for the aircraft approach. Usually, the aircraft will do a flyover the turn before they initiate attack, and you can hear this if you listen closely. If you're engaged in a hot and heavy fight with lots of noise, it can sometimes be difficult to pick up the aircraft engine sounds among the general alarum, so listen closely.

2. As soon as you hear the aircraft, button all of your vehicles except for ones with AA MGs (they can't be fired while buttoned. An exposed TC is much more vulnerable to strafing or shrapnel than the tank itself is.

3. Hide any vehicles you can. The best place to hide vehicles from aircraft is scattered trees. I haven't been able to confirm this, but it also appears that vehicles parked along a treeline or next to a building are less likely to be spotted by aircraft. This is certainly true IRL, I'm just not sure if the game engine takes this into account.

4. For vehicles with no scattered trees nearby, make sure to disperse them as widely apart as possible. This way, a single bomb is unlikely to take out more than one vehicle.

5. Also, keep in mind that terrain features (and buildings, too, I think) can also offer some protection, at least from bomb blasts. If no other options are available, parking a vehicle behind a ridge will shield it from bombs that land on the other side of the ridge. This is an especially good idea for lightly armored vehicles that can be taken out by a bomb blast from fairly far away.

6. Finally, if it's near the end of the game and you have any vehicles around that have largely served their purpose (ex: transport vehicles that are of no further use, SP guns or other AFVs that are out or nearly out of ammo), consider moving them off the map - this will put them out of reach of the air attack, and save you a potentially unnecessary point loss.

Hope this helps,

YD

[whizbang]

One other trick that works for me. If you have any AA vehicles keep them far away from your tanks. The aircraft will invariably go for the AA vehicle first of all and you don't want them to be too near to AckAck in case he misses. Put your tanks in a column and you can be sure of disaster. If it's an IL-2 there will be bomb runs, rocket attacks and then cannon srafing - usually in that order. Make sure you button up for the strafing otherwise you could lose your tank commander.

I've found the IL-2 very effective against unwary opponents one of whom suggested it was disconcerting to say the least.

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by YankeeDog:

5. Also, keep in mind that terrain features (and buildings, too, I think) can also offer some protection, at least from bomb blasts. If no other options are available, parking a vehicle behind a ridge will shield it from bombs that land on the other side of the ridge. This is an especially good idea for lightly armored vehicles that can be taken out by a bomb blast from fairly far away.

I'm 99% certain that this is false. The only thing that protects you from the blast factor of explosives is range, and the terrain that the affected unit is in. For example, a 300mm rocket round comes down on the opposite side of a ridge that your infs are on. They still get affected as if the range was the same, regardless of the intervening ridge. They are only protected by the cover that they're in.

The important point is that blast factor only decreases (exponentially?) due to increasing range away from the impact/explosion point.

[manchildstein (ii)]

one time i was italian and had 7 semoventes in my force... they were making mincemeat of the t-26s and everything was under control... then the 20mm cannon-carrying soviet planes showed up and within 2 turns all of my semoventes were dead... then it was time to get down to brass tacks...

...edit...

anyway... yes having aa on hand is always a good idea... in this particular situation none was provided...

[ November 28, 2002, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: manchildstein II ]

[whizbang]

I've just been notified that my scenario for tyros has just been posted at the depot called 2nd Panzer Advance. You can try your hand there at avoiding the attentions of a Sturmovik IL-2.

[massimorocca]

And when, as in "Our backs to the Volga" Stalingrad Pack, there are aircraft of both side awarming over the battlefield, how you can know if they are "ours" or "theirs"?

[Barrold]

I just finished 'Our Backs to the Volga" scenario last night and air support does play a role for both sides.

The way that I check to see the type of plane is to follow any targeting line up to level 4 or 5 view.

My defense was tore up by Stukas dropping bombs. A direct hit on a factory took out a couple tanks and an entire platoon of infantry including support weapons. Fortunately the bomb also wiped out a big chunk of the attacking infantry which allowed me time to reinforce the area with reserves.

BDH

[Chad Harrison]

It seems like now the norm for my QB's is when I am the germans, my opponent brings in some planes to combat my StuG's. I have tried hidding them next to tall pines or woods with no success. The only way to 'hide' them that I have found is to get them into scattered trees, and that = immobilization for StuG's.

Chad

[tabpub]

In response to the statement below, buildings definitely do protect you from blast of bombs. I speak from personal experience, (in the game of course.)

Originally posted by Silvio Manuel:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by YankeeDog:

5. Also, keep in mind that terrain features (and buildings, too, I think) can also offer some protection, at least from bomb blasts. If no other options are available, parking a vehicle behind a ridge will shield it from bombs that land on the other side of the ridge. This is an especially good idea for lightly armored vehicles that can be taken out by a bomb blast from fairly far away.

I'm 99% certain that this is false. The only thing that protects you from the blast factor of explosives is range, and the terrain that the affected unit is in. For example, a 300mm rocket round comes down on the opposite side of a ridge that your infs are on. They still get affected as if the range was the same, regardless of the intervening ridge. They are only protected by the cover that they're in.

The important point is that blast factor only decreases (exponentially?) due to increasing range away from the impact/explosion point.</font>

[Louie the Toad]

No one has mentioned closing with the enemy on the ground as a possible evasive maneuver. Has anyone experienced enemy planes backing off when this is tried. In BO or BB ?

Too close is comfort....... Toad

[whizbang]

Curiou that. For various reasons I have been replaying 2nd Panzer Advance. Normally I expect to lose two or three tanks either knocked out or immobilised by the IL-2, but most recently when I was preparing an AAR the IL-2 passed overhead for the initial recon run but never returned to attack. At that time all my tanks were engaging enemy infantry except the AA vehicle. It could explain it but why not attack the AA vehicle which is normally the first to go.

By the way if anyone wants an AAR on this short scenario mail me at drew@andrewmuir.com and I'll send it. I'ts approximately 1.3 megas and contains numerous screen prints. It's a beginner's scenario but has been tested by someone other than me who said the plane (IL-2) was too damaging?

[TheMan]

Hello there,

Im new here and i have some problems using air support.

Actually i dont know how to use an air support???

there are no hotkeys that would call planes and i created a simple mission to get planes in reserves,but nothing happens,i dont know what now:(

[ December 01, 2002, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: TheMan ]

[Krazy Canuck]

Originally posted by TheMan:

Hello there,

Im new here and i have some problems using air support.

Actually i dont know how to use an air support???

there are no hotkeys that would call planes and i created a simple mission to get planes in reserves,but nothing happens,i dont know what now:(

You can buy air support, but, you cannot control it. If you do a search you'll find lots of P.O'd people who've had their planes attack their troops, tanks etc. Air support is randem and never works as effectively as your opponents!!

KC

[TheMan]

so when i will buy a plane it will come to the map anytime it will want to?

hm thats weird,i thought i will have plane in the air at the corner of the map and then i will order him to destroy something and return to home

[Eden Smallwood]

There's a new scenario at SD, _Stuka!_. It's a real pain in the Stuka; plenty of practice using the desperate techniques listed above.

FWIW, I found doing The Shuffle fairly effective, if on Road- Fast, Reverse, Fast... On open ground it didn't quit win a prize.

Another technique I discovered which works *really* well at protecting your tanks- bunch up your infantry on the other side of the field.

Eden

[whizbang]

posted December 01, 2002 08:58 AM

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posted December 01, 2002 08:58 AM

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so when i will buy a plane it will come to the map anytime it will want to?

hm thats weird,i thought i will have plane in the air at the corner of the map and then i will order him to destroy something and return to home

Normally the plane will arrive any time after you set it . For example if you put it as reinforcement One to come 10 minutes after the start you can then expect it no sooner than that. It will make three or four runs attacking the enemy but you have no control over it. Imagine you get on the blower to the airport and shout "Oi we need help!!" that's about as realistic as it will get. But don't forget you have to buy it first laddie - if you don't pay you don't get.

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by whizbang:

Curiou that. For various reasons I have been replaying 2nd Panzer Advance. Normally I expect to lose two or three tanks either knocked out or immobilised by the IL-2, but most recently when I was preparing an AAR the IL-2 passed overhead for the initial recon run but never returned to attack. At that time all my tanks were engaging enemy infantry except the AA vehicle. It could explain it but why not attack the AA vehicle which is normally the first to go.

It sounds like the AAA scared it off, I believe you only see the recon pass when AAA scares off a Fighter-Bomber.

[whizbang]

It could be although on every previous occasion the AA has been destroyed on the first bombing run by the IL-2 and the tanks on subsequent attacks. In this case not even the AA was attacked. Still that unpredictability is the beauty of the game.

[Hurricane]

IMHO, air power is by far the weakeast element simulated in CMBB (and CMBO). It is extremely abstracted and you have little or no control over it. I think it would be more than fair to even get basic information like "enemy aircraft spotted" "friendly aircraft spotted" and also information about successful AAA fire. But now you have to carefully listen to sounds and look for shadows, which is totally different from the rest of the game. This gets especially confusing in a battle where both sides have aircraft. I get this feeling that my tanks or the enemy's tanks are getting killed entirely randomly, and that is not very fun.

[ December 02, 2002, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: Hurricane ]

[whizbang]

Usually the tell-tale sign of aircraft coming is your ackack pompoming away ( a quite distinctive sound) or your tanks firing their MG's in the air pointing in the direction of incoming, then the sound of the plane, then its shadow and then your tanks going up in smoke as the bombs hit. I have lost tanks to bombs, rockets and cannon. They sometimes miss the tanks but hardly ever miss a sitting AA vehicle.

But of course you are right - they never seem to hit your enemy just you.