Apache Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 Is anyone else of the view that AI AFV targetting and accuracy is a little too good? I can accept the odd (even quite a few) 'one shot - one kill', especially from AFVs which are hull-down and pre-sighted on advancing AFVs but I can't help thinking there is a little too much bias towards AI effectiveness in this regard. Some of the examples are: 1) Night scenario, muck and blazes flying all around (extensive 25 pdr arty bombardment), buttoned Tiger picks out 3-4 PIAT teams trying to work up the flanks (on different sides) and starts to accurately target them, amongst hordes of other infantry. Pretty damn good for a firing slit view? 2) Panther (targeting something else at the time) spins turret round, targets, KOs and kills a rapidly retreating Sherman over about a 70m dash, from about 300m. 3) 3-4 TDs/Tanks moving against a Stug, not very well concealed, fire 3-4 shots each and miss (not moving by this time) while Stug bags three tanks with 3 shots! (about 500m) I've noticed this over a period of quite some time and I could understand if the AI troops were veteran or crack, but they rarely are. Edited for typos and distances [ March 17, 2002, 05:46 AM: Message edited by: Apache ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 Are you saying that the computer "player" has some kind of advantage? If so I'd say your wrong. The TacAI is identical for human and "computer player". The only thing the "computer player" does is to plan the turns, just like we do. He/she/it is then just as left to the basic functions and whims of the TacAI. If you think the TacAI is too responsive at times I think you will find that a majority of the forum agrees with you. But as it is an unavoidable side effect of the current spotting system, "if one see all see", that is. You will just have to accept it and adapt your strategies. the bottom line is that you are not being cheated. The playing field is level insomuch that both sides, human and computer, are free to exploit the strengths and weaknesses of the simulation in CM. And when it comes to this kind of exploitation no AI beats a human. -- M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Posted March 17, 2002 Author Share Posted March 17, 2002 That may be, BUT with alarming regularity the AI seems able pick off high threat units with ease. i just played a scenario with a Panther reversing out of shot of a 40mm AA with some zooks working round the side of it. It was buttoned and yet managed to go from one to the other zooks with ease. Where I had zooks in ambush positions they seem not to be able to hit the side of a barn door! BTW - I was looking for views, not lectures stating the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 I tend to find that AI guns and AFV's are frequently slightly better at getting their shots on target (esp. front turret hits on Shermans) It's difficult to be sure, as it's impossible to recreate a particular scenario, but whenever I use Pershings they seem to exhibit a magnetic attraction to any 150mm IG shell within about 500m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaka Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 Originally posted by Apache: ...1) Night scenario, muck and blazes flying all around (extensive 25 pdr arty bombardment), buttoned Tiger picks out 3-4 PIAT teams trying to work up the flanks (on different sides) and starts to accurately target them, amongst hordes of other infantry. Pretty damn good for a firing slit view? ... There is no relative spotting in CM... Wish means, the Ai (or yours for all that matters) buttoned tank knows about every unit it has in its LOS that has been spotted by any other unit on its side. On top of that, regarding infantry targets, for the TacAi the 1st target priority is AT teams, then crews (can be AT teams) and only after that infantry squads (or not). After around 2 years of CM playing, I’ve played only three or four times against AI… Just there isn’t any point on doing it, there is no difficulty and also there are many human adversaries out there (PBEM/TCPIP)… Every each one of them has his own special way of playing and takeing advantage of the game limitations… so entertainment is assured Just remember one final thing… Knowing the TacAI (not Ai) “mind” is a must for any pbem/tcpip success, don’t fight and complain about the TacAI, just use it to your own advantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 Well, excuse me... You might not agree with my way of phrasing it, but that is my view. There is no bias "towards AI effectiveness". Your guns will shoot just as accurately and your vehicles will act just as "intelligently" as those of the computer player, we are all in the hands of the TacAI once the orders have been given. You might say that the TacAI is too good when compared to real life though, but that is another matter. Unless BTS comes clean after 20 months and reveals that we have all been screwed I'd say that what you are experiencing is based on selective perception. -- M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 1st Hussars Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 It's called bad luck with a combination of fluke shots. Like when I have 1 37mm AT gun KO 5 Tigers from the front at 500mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjelinek Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 Apache, All of your "bad luck" has come while you were playing the allied side. Try playing the Germans and see if your luck changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Posted March 17, 2002 Author Share Posted March 17, 2002 Nope, doesn't just relate to Allied, I've found it goes for Axis too. Mattias, that's just the point, what I'm saying is that it does seem to be game engine issues that cause this. I wonder how much matters will change in CMBB. My father was in Churchills in WWII and I remember his gunner (who CMBO would probably model as a vet) saying he would rarely stand a cat in hell's chance of zapping reversing tanks on the move or selecting shreck teams out of other infantry. I get some real bad luck with handheld AT accuracy too. I target an AFV within 70-100m (after placing an ambush marker) and get miss after miss, AI one shot at the turret of a Sherman at 163m, KO first time. I also find zooks etc better from woods etc than buildings. I'm not complaining about this understand, it just seems to get more noticeable the more I test theories out v. the AI. As you say, too responsive a TAC AI I suppose. I'll doubtless move onto more TCP/PBEM games. [ March 17, 2002, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Apache ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpazManOught Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 Have you tried any of the following Crossing your fingers Shouting "Shoot, shoot you idiot's shooot!" any other general exclaimations such as "argh, reverse fools, reverse", "Drive faster, faster, noooo, dont stop there you damn block heads" All of the above seem to help my AFV's stay alive longer. Might just be me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 It's called bad luck with a combination of fluke shots. Like when I have 1 37mm AT gun KO 5 Tigers from the front at 500mm. Well, shooting from half a metre, I imagine the gun crew are putting the rounds in through the hatch Quite what the cats are doing trundling up to a gun like that though, I can't even begin to fathom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiltie Lad Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 Ya know I've noticed this exact same tendency when I'm playing against humans too! It just seems that their stuff blows up mine far more than mine blows up theirs. They get lucky shots on me all the time, and my guys can't seem to hit the proverbial barn door! Whaaaaaaaaaaaa. Actually, I've often been relieved to get some lucky shots that helped in the clutch. What a relief, and how 'normal' it feels when things go right. Guess that 'abnormal' feeling when things go dreadfully wrong is the same sinking feeling you get in real combat life. That sense that, "This is all wrong. This shouldn't be happening to me/us." Just my thoughts. Nice topic choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 For what it's worth, I think that in CMBo against a human opponent, it is rather too easy to overrun tank forces with infantry masses (because of absolute spotting and perfect radios). I never felt that tanks in CMBO are too effective against infantry teams, rather the other way round because of bad MGs. The only thing I wished as a game engine extension (besides fixed MGs) would be a model of the different sights and copulas used on different AFVs. The Jagdpanzer's rotating telescopic sight must totally suck when surrounded by infantry. The flat StuG copula with big maginification but six always open views will make a difference to a Panzer copula with four bigger closeable slits and different magnification. The Panzermuseum Munster has a M-41 or M-48 you can climb in and look out of the sights and copula. It is not something you want to do if you don't have to. But moving objects while you are standing will be spotted, and you will be able to tell a Bazooka-class weapon from other groundpounders when it moves inside its effective range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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