SturmSebber Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 I'm playing a pbem with a friend and we have a little discussion about the sdkfz 7/2 /1 , do they still have a "bug" in them in the euro-version wich makes them unfair to use? I'd be really gratefull if an administrator could answer this one too. Thanks in advance, Sturmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 Check here BTW it is not a bug but a limitation of the system [ May 17, 2002, 03:17 AM: Message edited by: Thin Red Line ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 I've played two scenarios PBEM lately which contain Flak trucks. In one of them, I was able to reverse a quad 20mm flak truck through open terrain at a number of HMC's - and it was able to take them all out. In another, I'm on the receiving end, and the damn thing is proving impossible to clobber. The only sure way to deal with them is to drop large calibre artillery on them (105s or something). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 .50 Cal MG fire can take them out as well as small arms / infantry assault fire, but the flak wagons are still gamey as tank fire is nearly always ineffective when it should be the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 For what its worth, the Flakpanzers work fine, in the sense that they have the deadly accurate Flak gun and flatten everything M8-ish, but they don't have the killability bug, if you let them stand against real tanks, they die nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoopenfaust2 Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 Veteran mortars with good HQ LOS can drop shells on the Yerman sittin' in the little Yerman seat. Adapt, learn, overcome. Thats what makes the game so goddamn fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 Originally posted by Hoopenfaust 101: Veteran mortars with good HQ LOS can drop shells on the Yerman sittin' in the little Yerman seat. Adapt, learn, overcome. Thats what makes the game so goddamn fun Any competent gameyist will have them comstantly zig-zacking in fast-mode between two patches of cover. You must be very lucky to hit them with indirect fire, and if you can predict movement enough for that, you can order tank area fire into the path as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Switch_Back Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 I concur, though I have never used them against a human opponent because I dont want my games to be gamey, but when I use it against the AI in a scenario ( out of my control what I have ) it just tears holes in enemy lines with complete ease, even if it gets immobolized if it is rear facing it can shread any advance and still provide DF support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Originally posted by Thin Red Line: Check here BTW it is not a bug but a limitation of the systemInteresting FAQ and articles! Thanks for the link. Just a couple points re the FlakWagons, yes there is a bug with AFV main gun fire directed against them but they are hardly invincible lol In a recent PBEM game a HMG KO'd one at 660m(!) and I have seen numerous times infantry small arms fire take them out at ranges up to 200m. As others have said even light mortars can do them in. Claims of a 'competent gameyist' zig-zagging them around while ripping huge holes in your line is pretty amusing, I would like to see that. Back in the day when 'anything goes' an opponent of mine was attempting just such a manuever with four of the buggers, he didn't count on the infantry platoon waiting in ambush (less than a 100m away mind you) which promptly dispatched them all in less than a minute. Any AFV regarded as a 'tank' is almost assuredly safe from 20mm fire, the 37mm is another story. I recall from one of WB's scenarios where a 37mm Flak KO'd a Jumbo from the side, I breathed a sigh of relief while my opponent had other words. Stick to a balanced combined arms force and you will have the right tools to deal with FlakWagons or any other problem on CM's virtual battlefield. Hope that helps. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 Originally posted by Switch_Back: I concur, though I have never used them against a human opponent because I dont want my games to be gamey, but when I use it against the AI in a scenario ( out of my control what I have ) it just tears holes in enemy lines with complete ease, even if it gets immobolized if it is rear facing it can shread any advance and still provide DF support.You can accomplish the same using the Wirblewind (quad 20mm) and Ostwind (single 37mm), without using a "broken" unit that is relatively immune to tank fire, etc. The blast on the 'Winds is nasty, they just devour ground units, and any light AFV that happen by. Supposedly these Flakpanzers were quite rare- one document I have puts them at about 90-100 for the Wirblewind and only 25-30 of the Ostwind ever built- making them as rare as a Jagdtiger, but in practice the Flakpanzers were prolly far less likely to see action at the front; they were prolly protecting Divisonal assets/HQs or something. I got 2 Wirble- and one Ost- in a scenario (enemy had only 3 Sextons), and they accounted for 2 Sextons and gave the enemy infantry (Coy + 2 Pn?) a case of THE HORROR. [ May 20, 2002, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: Silvio Manuel ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 Originally posted by Silvio Manuel: Supposedly these Flakpanzers were quite rare- one document I have puts them at about 90-100 for the Wirblewind and only 25-30 of the Ostwind ever built- making them as rare as a Jagdtiger, but in practice the Flakpanzers were prolly far less likely to see action at the front; they were prolly protecting Divisonal assets/HQs or something. 87 Wirbelwind and 44 Ostwind, according to feldgrau. They were used in the spearheads of the Ardennes offensive, raised hell by effective direct fire and died rather sooner than later from obsolete AT guns in American lines. When the sky cleared mind-offensive, they were sorely missed... They should have used the unarmored things instead, those would have survived the 57mm shots as we all know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Switch_Back Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 On the question of AT guns, I have a question for all of you, how often were 88 batteries actually used in WW2?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Silvio Manuel: Supposedly these Flakpanzers were quite rare- one document I have puts them at about 90-100 for the Wirblewind and only 25-30 of the Ostwind ever built- making them as rare as a Jagdtiger, but in practice the Flakpanzers were prolly far less likely to see action at the front; they were prolly protecting Divisonal assets/HQs or something. 87 Wirbelwind and 44 Ostwind, according to feldgrau. They were used in the spearheads of the Ardennes offensive, raised hell by effective direct fire and died rather sooner than later from obsolete AT guns in American lines. When the sky cleared mind-offensive, they were sorely missed... They should have used the unarmored things instead, those would have survived the 57mm shots as we all know </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 Originally posted by Silvio Manuel: My "spreadsheet" (dunno where I got it from) has the numbers as 86 Wirbles and 36 Osts. There were also the "Moebelwagen", a more boxy earlier ad-hoc version of a Quad 20mm on Pz IV. They were more numerous, too lazy too look right now. Its amazing how effectively Hitler squandered German men and materiel in futile offensives, awful tactical meddling, and poor choices in what route tank production would go.No doubt, but do you say that with special regards to the production of armored Flak vehicles/tanks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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