Request: Boot Camp & Academy

[Matias]

As a newbie come to CM I sure wish there were more instructional scenarios included. While having read a lot about the Second World War, much of the technical and tactical details are new to me, and one of my principal attractions to the game is the historical education / simulation aspect (I'm happy to play to learn, not just to win!).

I'd pay good money for a CD of scenarios which could roughly be described as a Boot Camp and a Millitary Academy - and I suspect many other players would too!

What do I mean exactly? Well a Boot Camp set of scenarios would include a couple of instructional scenarios on how to execute basic tactics within the context of the game engine. Things like, "In general use your tanks in breadth and have them all 'appear' at the same time - do this by the following combination of Hunt, Shoot & Scoot, etc." the scenarios would focus on then succesfully executing a couple of tactics under ideal conditions w/o a focus on unit and national differences - just fundemental principals of WWII combat and how to pull them off within the game system, and of course focusing on all types of units. I know a few of these (mostly related to tanks), but on uses of other types of units I'm clueless!

The Millitary Academies by contrast would focus on specific nationalities and weapons systems. Stuff like, "Soviet doctrine stated that Self Propelled Artillery should be used in X,Y,Z ways - in this scenario use them that way to achive success." Of course alternate tactics may work in the game, but I want to know what would have been tried historically and see if I can succed under those limitations before I start being creative!

I realize such a set of scenarios would be a monumental undertaking and would really be only of one time use, but I'll bet many players even veteran ones would find some tactic or more likely bit doctrine that they didn't know. And like I said, I'd be willing to pay for it as a scenario pack to go with the game, so I'd be happy if it was something Battlefront put out!

Alternatively I'd be happy to help create such a set of scenarios as a public service in any way I could (obviously not desiging, but I can run the editor, edit briefings, playtest, host, etc.)

What do people think? As far as I can tell there is nothing like this out there already.

[Eden Smallwood]

I absolutely agree that your idea is pleasing; I've thought of it myself too. "CM Academy".

But the problem I think is what you've already guessed- who's going to put that work in? The people qualified to put something like that together are the same people who are already making scenarios and maps and whatall for me, so which would I prefer them to do?

Well I'd say I want them to just keep doing what they're doing. In fact I think they should pick up the pace a bit.

And since one can learn the tactics needed just by playing... Now, I agree that just playing will not teach one historical doctrines and other more refined bits you mentioned, but still the benefit becomes less, and more particular, than learning which tactics work. I agree there's a hole- especially what these different units are, but on the subject of units ISTR BFC is putting together a little list o' units with explanations or something something...?

At any rate, in case you haven't seen it there's a thread with a bunch of nifty "useful posts" here:

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000812

Eden

[ASL Veteran]

The problem is that what works for one player will not always work for another player. There are also so many variables involved that nobody could hope to give you a stock 'how to' answer for every situation you may encounter. Trial and error .... that's how you will learn what tactics fit your personality the best.

[Matias]

Eden, thanks for the link! There is good stuff there, but it'll take a while to digest - I was hoping for something more structured. Heck I'd be happy to take a class with tests even! (perhaps thats taking it a bit far!! )

In any case, I agree motivation is difficult, hence my willingness to pay "ca$h money" for even a non-BFC produced CD.

ASL Vet, I think you misunderstood me. I don't want a "tutorial on how to win" that works in all cases. I want a basic primier on the tactics of WWII and more importantly how to execute them in CM games (do I use Run or Assault to simulate X? In RL this job was performed by Y, in the game you can do the roughly the same thing with Z, etc.).

Beyond that I'd love a historically accurate education on the doctrine of various countries - and for sure that is something that can be taught as a set of If A (ex: defending a town against armor), then B (whatever it was for the Soviets), because that's what doctrine *is* after all!

C'mon! No takers at all?

:confused:

[Scott B]

Originally posted by Matias Duarte:

C'mon! No takers at all?

:confused:

What you propose is a significant undertaking. It is also a good idea, and I like the way you have framed it. I know of two separate projects that roughly approximate each of the two types of programs you have mentioned, and I think that you will start seeing stuff along these lines in the next few months, but I also think there is a lot of room for this kind of thing as well.

Scott

[easytarget]

personally i've wondered why there isn't at least a newbie forum with a veteran moderator to answer questions on basic tactics and strategy

this place can appear rather daunting to noobs who quite potentially are scared off before they even get past the demo

lost rev for BFC

[demoss]

There are also so many variables involved that nobody could hope to give you a stock 'how to' answer for every situation you may encounter.

I'm pretty sure that Soviet doctrine would disagree.

[Matias]

Scott,

That is great news! Is there anyway I can contribute or help any of these projects, or should I just sit patiently in line with cash in hand?

As I mentioned before I'm more than willing to contribute to such a project - I may not yet be competent to run a battle, but I sure can run the editor. In fact I'm recreating the famous battle site of the confrontation between the People's Republic of Berkely and the National Socialist Dot-Coms (S.F. Branch) at Fisherman's Warf. I'm kinda surprised it wasn't included in the CD actually...

[Slappy]

Matias,

I have for some time thought about the same. I've just sent a training scenario to your e-mail which illustrates a plan I have for a training scenario series.

The idea is to practice particular phases of the game, or situations rather than whole scenarios which make it difficult to isolate areas that need work and to repeat the same situation.

I would be happy, if you could drum up some othersupport, to be a contriubtior to such a series.

[laxx]

Actually, as a companion guide to "Boot Camp and a Millitary Academy", one should have a Gamey Guide to CMBB scenarios .

that's right, this guide tells you WHERE the enemy is, what to expect, where to put your troops/AFVs/ etc.

Not exactly tactics or strategy but just gamey enuff so that you walk away with a smug on your face, knowing that your green hunter group just killed a King Tiger because the guide told you where the King Tiger would be coming from ("Between 2nd and 3rd House on the Right")...

[ December 08, 2002, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: laxx ]

[Moon]

The Official CMBB Strategy Guide might actually be also a nice way to start. It has, among other things, a number of "walkthroughs" for some of the scenarios on the CD, which provide a number of great hints, especially for newbies...

Martin