Wild Bill Wilder Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 There was a small problem for those playing the Elsdorf scenario. The German reinforcements were not well placed and did not last more than a turn or two. And that is rough when they are Tiger tanks . To compensate for that, I have reworked it and am going to post it on a website for downloading. As soon as I can find a home for it, I'll let you know where it is.I am going to post it. It turned out to be a change for the better and is much more playable now from the German side. ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester/Designer Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 I wondered why I lost all my reinforce ments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfinder Posted July 22, 2000 Share Posted July 22, 2000 Kewl, I look forward to getting my hiney shot to pieces again...as the Ami ------------------ unca pathy will show ya the path, if only he could find it himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted July 22, 2000 Author Share Posted July 22, 2000 The jig is up...the truth is out . Now you can get some payback as the Germans ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester/Designer Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfinder Posted July 22, 2000 Share Posted July 22, 2000 oh rats, ah lost mah hiney as the AMI.... ah gots a bbbbaaaddddd feelin' 'bout this ------------------ unca pathy will show ya the path, if only he could find it himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebo Posted July 22, 2000 Share Posted July 22, 2000 Wild Bill, *****SPOILER WARNING***** Thanks for the fix. In an ongoing PBEM game those 4 Tigers entered the map right into the guns of 2 Pershings (one TC'd by you!). 20 seconds later scratch four Tigers. Would you consider changing the start positions of the US mortar carriers and Priests too? The first turn they get shot up by the German gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted July 22, 2000 Author Share Posted July 22, 2000 I'll take a look at it, Lebo. Thanks. You say the four Tigers were taken out immediately. Is this in the revised or first version?...WB ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester/Designer Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted July 22, 2000 Share Posted July 22, 2000 Wild Bill, ************Spoiler******************** . . . . . . . . Yes,All 4 on the spur were taken out in a matter of 45 seconds. The Ubermensch apparently did not beleive in recon If I had drawn my opponent in it may have been better but even still,they would come in in view of a smart opponents reserves (Which Lebo is).. A better entry spot,or a varying logic on where they appear would be cool,but I don't even know if this is possible. Well,The entry spot is. Has the new version been uploaded yet? I looked all the usual places with no luck. Thanks, ------------------ -Rookie Cactus Air Force Homepage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebo Posted July 23, 2000 Share Posted July 23, 2000 Wild Bill, It was the original version of the scenario as Rookie has said. *****SPOILER***** The Mortar carriers and Priests start at the left end of the US line, in open ground, in view of a German 75mm IG. In our game an arty duel immediately broke out during which a Priest and the IG were put out of action. Would you consider moving these assets so they do not have an LOS at the start of the game (that is, unless you intend the game to start with a gun duel). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted July 23, 2000 Author Share Posted July 23, 2000 Look in the CMHQ Game Depot. It has been uploaded there and is listed as version 2.0 http://combathq.thegamers.net/depot.html The Tigers now have a better chance of survival. No more than that...no spoiler here ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester/Designer Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com [This message has been edited by Wild Bill Wilder (edited 07-22-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted July 23, 2000 Share Posted July 23, 2000 *****Spoiler****** . . . . . . . <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lebo: Wild Bill, *****SPOILER***** The Mortar carriers and Priests start at the left end of the US line <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Aha,So thems was mortar carriers!!! I should shelled em back,figured they were just tracks.. DANG ------------------ -Rookie Cactus Air Force Homepage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeAcH Posted July 23, 2000 Share Posted July 23, 2000 This is a great one player scenario when played as US! Thank WBW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted July 23, 2000 Author Share Posted July 23, 2000 Well, thank you TeAcH! Nice of you to take the time to write and tell me. That is always an encouragement. It has been one of my replayables since I first designed. I prefer the American side too. In making the revision, I did play the Germans and I was surprised how tense it was. The tussle around that village is one fierce dog-fight, from either side. I appreciate the note.... ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester/Designer Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted July 24, 2000 Share Posted July 24, 2000 First off, I've not played the original Elsdorf , only version 2, and only against the AI (as everyone knows, when fighting a human opponent, all bets are off). That said, I think that Esldorf 2 is very playable human vs AI. I did it as the Americans, and pulled off a victory by the skin of my teeth. I had no problem with my default start positions coming under fire early because the AI likes to hold it's fire until you move closer into it's kill zone --- something I find the AI likes to do consistantly --- so it didn't open up on me until turn 3. As for the Tiger's entry points, I never saw them, because I was bogged down in town and in trying to sweep the piney ridges to the South. Oh, I heard them eventually, when one of my Pershings, and then an M8 went up... Eventually, I just pulled back outta town and flattened it with arty while flanking with my armor. PS: Seems some wahoo TC with the unlikely monicker of "WB Wilder" ended up credited with 4 Tigers all by his lonesome. PPS: Took out the KT (finally!) with a team effort: Priest immobilized it (and died for it), Pershing knocked out it's main gun, and then a 'zook team hit it in the flank from 100m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted July 24, 2000 Share Posted July 24, 2000 SPOILERS---------------- - - - - - - Bill - I like the original version just fine! I was playing last night as the U.S. I had snuck a platoon way down the left flank and towards the town (right where the IG gun position was). Imagine my terror when the 4 flanking Tigers appear in the road - RIGHT SMACK-DAB IN THE MIDDLE OF MY FLANKING PLATOON!!! Actually it was worst-case - I had the 3 squads and a bazooka team across the road in the patch of woods, all facing AWAY from the tanks toward the town. My platoon leader (Lt. GiantHairyIridiumOnes, I believe) and a MMG team were still back across the road in the other patch of woods. The Tigers really were splitting my platoon in half, and I had not yet gotten any of my armor over to the left yet. I unswallowed my tongue and gave the appropriate targetting orders, just in case my boys weren't awake yet. Then I clicked 'GO'. The guys across the road got about 3 seconds to start to spin before the MG boys opened up and a couple Tigers buttoned up. The bazooka's first shot nails one right in the tuckus, no damage. Turrets are slewing, MGs are trying to find targets in the woods, and then a couple of grenades fly... -BOOM!!- no damage, but another hatch slams closed. And then WHAM! The bazooka team eats an 88mm shell and for some reason is shaken...but they're tough, and let loose another round. Another connect, but still no damage. Meanwhile, back across the road, Lt. "NeedsAWheelbarrowToHaulThemAroundIn" and his intrepid assistants underhand another grenade at their target, and with a screen-jarring KR-SHANK! his facing Tiger is abandoned and the Panzerboys in their black tights are crying for their mommies. They get pistol & SMG fire in response. In the last seconds of the turn the Bazooka team braves more 88 shells and the loss of a man to send another round squarely into the rear of their target, this time, I believe they immobilize it, but it's hard to say, because almost immediately after their shot one of the rifle squads finally scores with a grenade and KRAK-A-THOOOOM!!! - another dead PzKwVIE begins taking up valuable real estate. The turn ends with the two survivors pounding the unholy poop out of the killer rifle squad (which breaks and runs off) and the valiant Bazooka team (which shuffles off its mortal coil). The next turn is slightly less dramatic, as the 2 Tigers and remaining infantry take up the first 30 seconds by exchanging ineffective fire, and the Tigers take up the next 10 seconds by cooperatively exploding into flames, courtesy of the Sherman and Pershing I sent screaming through the woods. I tell ya, I don't replay the turn movies in this game very often, but I sure as heck replayed THAT one a few times. Thanks Bill!!! -dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted July 24, 2000 Author Share Posted July 24, 2000 Ah, von Lucke...You chose the right man for the job Great going. And Dale, your's was a heart stopper. A very dramatic exercise in bowel constraint for that platoon. Nothing like four Tigers to make your day! Be sure and put flowers on the grave cairn of that bazooka team Thanks Guys. Gotta love this game! ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester/Designer Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Weaver Posted July 24, 2000 Share Posted July 24, 2000 -Spoilers!- I'm sorry, in a way, to see the Tigers leave their peculiar reinforcement hex, since they SCARED THE BEJEEZUS out of me over there. They popped up right in front of two infantry platoons. A bazooka popped one and ran away, then my unrouted platoon assaulted them with grim determination and knocked out two more before losing their nerve, then a Pershing got the last one. I lost all the armor that had started the game over on that side of the map and about 18 infantry casualties, but it was damn inspiring to see my boys charge those hulking Nazi monsters. http://www.rdwarf.com/kioh/tigaslt1.gif Dan [This message has been edited by Dan Weaver (edited 07-24-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 Well, as the one who originally complained about the reinforcement location, I must add my 2 cents! I was playing the original Elsdorf as the Germans against Freyland. I was counting on my reinforcements to take care of his tanks, particularly the Jumbos and Pershings. Unfortunately, he had the Pershings on my right flank, and I lost three out of four Tigers within 7 seconds. The fourth was one was blown away on the next turn when I reversed it away from the unseen Pershings only to have a damn Chafee that had sped down the left flank take it out from behind. And the same damn Chafee then proceeds to kill my King Tiger! And on the first shot, no less, while my KT and the other Tiger are missing it time and again! Aaargh! I suffered a tactical defeat, at least in part because I never really got a chance to bring the Tigers into play. So I still think the new version is more playable. Thanks to Wild Bill for being so responsive. ------------------ "Don't lie to me, Gustav! You're a stinkin' Mac user!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted July 26, 2000 Author Share Posted July 26, 2000 Thanks for the heads up, Buckeye. Good constructive criticism with a positive approach such as yours can't help but be well received. That is what we need! ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester/Designer Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted July 26, 2000 Author Share Posted July 26, 2000 Some have asked. The Elsdorf Revision is found at the CMHQ Scenario Depot. http://combathq.thegamers.net Just so you know...Thanks! ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester/Designer Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted July 27, 2000 Share Posted July 27, 2000 Playing this scenario led to my first defeat against the AI (not counting Villers-Bocage... I was doing pretty well as the Germans, having hidden a platoon of soldiers ahead of the front line, who took out two tanks and a number of US infantry before heading for Valhella; but darn, my tigers couldn't hit the side of a barn, and when by accident one of their shells DID hit, it usually bounced off whereas the Americans (all of them called Hawkeye, I guess) hit my tanks dead on every time. The worst moment was when my King Tiger crew abandoned their undamaged tank after one shell from a Pershing bounced off . When my last Tiger was cremated by a bazooka on move 20, I abandoned the game . Ah well, you can't win 'em all... Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted July 27, 2000 Author Share Posted July 27, 2000 It was not your day Henri. Grim stats indeed. Sorry for these losses. I hate those kind, but I love 'em too, because they make me determined to find a way...Thanks. ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester/Designer Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PD Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 ** ** Spoilers ** ** <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wild Bill Wilder: There was a small problem for those playing the Elsdorf scenario. The German reinforcements were not well placed and did not last more than a turn or two. And that is rough when they are Tiger tanks . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hi Bill, I played V1.00 last night, and kept two of my tigers.. The AI had bunched upo too much in the centre of the map for the two pershings (one on my left flank) to come to bear before the four tigers began creating a screen of burning american vehicles I still lost two, because I had this close range duel going on with a 105mm Sherman, ending with it's gun damaged, and giving it a rear ender when it ran away. I managed to win a tactical victory. If you hadn't of supplied the extra platoon, my holding action with the King Tiget and Panzer IV on the left of the villiage wouldn't of held those yankee troops. This was one hell of a battle. I really thought I was dead, and that those guys wouldn't hold. And that bloody 75 only fired once. Everyone else (amercian) walked aroud him, not even bothering to put him out of his misery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted July 30, 2000 Author Share Posted July 30, 2000 You guys are good, plain and simple. I've learned that early on. I'm keeping a list of "never play PBEM" names and most of you are on there. Okay, so we start making 'em tougher. Can't have too many easy victories. Got to keep an edge on you warriors ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester/Designer Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted August 1, 2000 Share Posted August 1, 2000 Hmmm, I had no problems playing either side in the original Elsdorf. My Tigers that entered the side did fine. I didn't even notice them until a turn or two later. When I played as the Americans I thought they would come in later than the other reinforcements. I was surprised to see them all show up at the same time. I did eventually lose all but one Pershing. The last one got stuck and was useless after he killed one tiger. Oh, and it was nice to see those 88 rounds pinging of the front of a Pershing turret at close range. In the end it was a lowly M24 which popped the final Tiger in the flank while moving and then followed it up on the last turn with a side turret penetration on the KT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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